How to Be Flexible with Complex Transactions | Logan Fullmer

 

All right, science flipping podcast listeners, as always in this episode is brought to you by Rocketly.ai if you’re looking for a seller lead generating system that has automation in AI bot and has sellers coming to you, then Rocketly.ai is your choice. Make sure you head over to the website, fill out an application and schedule a demo now to see the power of Rocketly.ai. What is up? Science? Flipping family. Welcome back to another incredible episode. You guys are gonna really like this. I have a special guest with me. Logan Fullmer is what I would define as a utility belt. He’s dynamic. He defines what I believe in within real estate investing, and that is to not be a one trick pony, and to make sure that you can do it all. And this man right now has been doing it all since 2015 What’s up, dude? (Good to see you) All right man, well let’s talk a lot about what you’re leaning into here in 2024 we’ll kind of get to what you’ve been able to do. But bro, you are what I would consider the epitome of what I preach. You’re dynamic. You don’t just stick to one thing. You’re diverse. You know, you’re flexible, you’re fluid, depending upon the deal and what comes at you. You create it, right? And that’s what’s, yeah, that is what has helped me have a 16-year career. I know that’s why you’ve had a 9-10, year career. Talk to me about how you’ve been able to do that within the industry?

Logan: You know, one of the, like a lot of folks want you to or they preach that you should specialize and really focus on something and get really good at it. And early on, I didn’t know what I was doing. I was just looking for some way to make money. And it was in the six it was in the single family house and single family lot business. And at that point, I was just looking for ways to be profitable. I found all these interesting ways. And as I grew we had much more of a custom operation, I guess you could say. So, when something would come in, the most important part is I have to see, am I getting a substantial discount to market so I have equity, I’m covered, and if I just butcher the whole thing, I can sell it and not lose any money and walk out at almost any point. As long as I can do that, I’ll take a look at almost anything. And while there are times where I don’t feel like my operation is quite as fast as it possibly could be, there we pick up different kinds of deals all over the place, and it’s led me to some of my biggest deals that are exponentially larger than the deals in the past to bring me to a new comfort level all the time. But what it’s required is I have to be really good at resources like my rolodex. They say that, you know, your phone is the most important part. Yeah, now I no longer try to solve problems on my own. Who do I know that can help me fix this? Is it a lawyer? Is it a developer? Is it someone I met somewhere? That’s how the problem to get solved, and how I know how to do new.

Justin: So you’re really a deal architect, you know, and we’re kind of discussing, kind of your background. One of the things I do want to focus on is this title stuff that you’re doing (Yeah), that is phenomenal. I mean, when you’re telling me the numbers, you’re telling me, I’m like, holy hell, what am I doing wrong here, right? But, you know, talk to us about that concept being a deal architect. When something does get thrown at you, do you analyze everything? Do you take time and sit down to look over everything? Are you looking you surface level for a couple things to see if you just spend some of your time? Because I’m protective over my time right now, just like you have a whole engine that works without me, but I don’t want them wasting their time on stuff that really is going to be a better dead end than it’s going to be a deal for us. (Yeah) Is that makes sense. (It does). So, talk to us about how to like, especially the people, the newbies listening to this or watching this. If you are listening to this, I’d encourage you to watch the episode on Justincolby.tv so you can see my man Logan right there. But there’s a lot of people that will like spin their wheels, trying to analyze a scenario that isn’t more of a traditional deal. What’s your threshold like? When do you do it? When do you not?

Logan: You know, the way I’m looking at stuff at first is I got to figure out a rough idea of what it’s worth. Just real quick, literally, in 30 or 60 seconds, can I figure out what I think it’s roughly worth? And you can be off by a lot, but if you establish that, and I establish that my entry point is substantially less, or my potential entry point, then I’m interested. So the first place I’ll go. And early on, I was on doing this, and I went through kind of what you were saying, spend all this time analyzing all these deals, and I’m frustrated, and I’m not look it’s not efficient. And then I started to go to the process of, I’m gonna look at the appraisal district there. These days, the appraisal districts are now getting pretty good. 10 years ago, they were way off. Nowadays, they’re pretty close. Now, whether the house is remodeled or not, whether the building is full occupancy or not, whether the land is development ready or not, is different. I just look at the value there, (Sure), and if I’m getting it for 50% or less of that number, I say, Okay, I need to look more.

Justin: Of as is, and so I don’t need to break you up, because we’re gonna have different experience levels of listeners, right? (Right). So single family, home as is, value is pretty easy, relative, right?

Logan: Generally. So, let’s just use that example, because that’s what most people. That’s what I looked at the first times a house the red fence is worth 150 grand. Now, if it’s in a subdivision neighborhood that’s been built the last 20 years, and all the homes are similar, that’s probably dead on. (Sure). If it’s in a downtown neighborhood that’s changing, and it’s got a bunch of old houses being I just thought of Miami, but then you have a bunch of new stuff next to it that can be a little bit different (Yeah), but I’m just gonna go to the appraisal district or the Tax Office website, and if it says 150,000 I’m a player at 70 grand. (Okay). And I can pretty well do that without having a ton of risk. 70 to 80% of the properties that I buy and resell I don’t even visit, ever. But if you’re buying at such a substantial discount, there can be so many mistakes made so much wrong. Now the kicker to that is no one’s calling you Justin, no one’s getting on the phone and saying, Hey, dude, I got this house. It’s worth 150 I’m gonna sell it to you for 75 Do you want? That no works.

Justin: Well, that’s the next obvious question. Well Dude. Logan where the hell do I find this 50 cents on the dollar deal? Right? I mean. That’s what I’m even interested to your answer. But everyone’s gonna say, okay great Logan, I get the concept. Where do we find it?

Logan: So you gotta look for problems. So like that guy, that kid on the schoolyard that always finds himself in problems, that was me when I was younger. Those were bad problems. These are good problems. (Yeah). So they’re good problems for me. So, when someone has an unresolved probate, maybe three or four generations of incomplete probates, they have judgments or liens that help value the property. Sometimes, baby daddy’s cousin didn’t pay his child support, and he’s got a hundred thousand dollar child support lien. Someone in their family is got evicted from their house.

Justin: Looking almost, you’re looking for almost paperwork that supports the problem, right? Liens, probates, red tape within the city to say. These people are…

Logan: Fighting problems, bankruptcies, lost owners, all the judgments and liens breaks in the title chain.

Justin: So how do you get away from a property that has more liens on the than the value of the home?

Logan: So strangely enough, those judgment liens are assets to one person and their liability to the other. The person that they’re an asset to, they know and this is pretty standard in the debt collection business. If you don’t collect that thing within the first couple within the first couple of years, the odds of you it being collected are just exponentially decrease. So, for example, if someone sued a business owner that owned a small Fence Company or something like that and got hundred thousand dollar judgment against them. If they don’t collect that in a couple years, I can usually call and ask to buy that judgment five thousand, ten thousand, fifteen thousand almost nothing. But I’ve got one attorney on staff and bringing on another one. I have four attorneys now that are third party still, so I’ve got pretty good those legal bills, anywhere from 30 to 50 grand a month, consistently. But first thing I do is I inspect it and see was this judgment? Was it indexed correctly? Was it recorded correctly, are the names on it correctly? If they’re not, I can call the title company and say, “Please take this off the title commitment. It has insufficient evidence”. Half the time they will just take it off the title commitment. But most people don’t even know how to have that conversation. (Yeah). So that’s a big red or that’s a big kind of start in the beginning. Outside of that, you can also challenge these. Most of the folks that get these big judgments and liens against them, they didn’t fight it, and they didn’t have a good attorney. So immediately, if you tell the the creditor, look, I’m gonna file a bill of review, if it’s within four years, we’re gonna open up this lawsuit. We’re gonna go check to make sure everything was done correctly. They got to pay legal fees. They know that some of the mistakes they made are going to be looked at. (Yeah). They’re ready to settle quick. They want out. Yeah, or I could just offer them the money in the beginning, and they know it’s almost uncollectible. So those are ways to get all of those debts down quickly. But owners work the same way. You know, they’ve got a problem. They’ve been trying to sell this property for five years, and they can’t. A realtor tried to sell the market and it got jammed up in title. So, they can’t get their 200 grand. Then a wholesaler offers a 125, they take a shot at it. Years later and I’m telling them, Look, give me that old title commitment, or I’ll run your own title at work. I’m gonna look at this in my office with my people, and if we decide we’re gonna make you offer, it’ll be a cash offer, and you can come get paid tomorrow.

Justin: So here’s the thing that everyone needs to hear besides the granular, tactical stuff you just said. Why you make the money you make? Why you’re able to do this is because you provide value where there’s a lot of value needed that most people aren’t willing to take the time to do it.

Logan: That’s right. And you know, when you go to a city like Austin or Miami, for example. All these deals, if you’re in the middle of a high value area, developers have hired lawyers to go through and really do this? (Yeah) Yeah. But when you’re looking in a rural neighborhood for development land, old farmers don’t do it. When you’re looking at downtown, you know, one to 10 house vacant lots, they don’t spend the money or the time. So it’s a little bit too much resourceful, I guess, too much resources on that particular problem. But if a guy like me can come in and get the equity on it. Well, then this guy didn’t have to spend 30,000 illegal bills to do it. I can do it.

Justin: That’s right. And you’re spending 30,000 legal bills.

Logan: Well, for me, because I’ve done it, and I’ve got a ton of experience, it won’t cost me the same thing that cost, right?

Justin: That same lawyer is doing 10 deals where, if I had to go do it, he’s got to do one deal, it is going to cost me. 30 grand.

Logan: That and a big part is their attorney, if they haven’t done it, they’ve got to do a lot of exploratory work for us. I’ve seen countless of these, so I go in and say, We’re gonna do this, this and this, and I’m ready in 15 minute review, whereas their attorneys gonna schedule meetings, start charging by the hour, have a discussion, go back and research, do their five grand and then you know what to do yet. (Yeah) And I got a plan already,

Justin: So a couple quick questions to that, just out of my own curiosity. Do you still oversee and overlook all these deals? First you have, you have someone, like a general manager, like I do that would take that on for the most part.

Logan: So, what I started finding, I started working with really impressive people. Maybe one in 10 would be super impressive and they’d get to the point where like, this dude’s gonna roll out, like he doesn’t need me anymore. (Yeah). But I also know the challenge he’s gonna face. He have to get his own bookkeeper, he’s gonna have to get his own writ. He’s gonna have to hire and train people. He’s gonna have to figure out how to capitalize himself, because most people struggle with those things. So what my proposal to my currently, I’ve got five operating partners. (Yeah) My proposal is, look, let me open up an LLC. You own a half. I own half. I’m gonna capitalize it. My attorney that’s next door in our office, my bookkeeper that’s over here, my CPA that’s in our office, and my front desk gal, they’re all going to be part of an overhead burden to pay every month together. But now you have your own company, so you’re going to be partnered with somebody someday. Why don’t you be with me? (Yeah) Five partners that run their own company.

Justin: Love that good for you. I mean. (That is keep guys, good people for leaving) A100% and that’s obviously the nature of our beast, dude, is I even tell people. Iif you’re looking to hire, I would encourage people to do it to some way, like you’re doing where I’m saying, hey, learn the business for free. I’ll teach you everything you need to know, and then, within six months or a year, go out on your own, go cry. I want you to.(Go see what the real world is like. It’s fucking tough.) It’s not easy right? But it gives the opportunity for them to say, Well, hold on, big brother, I might still kind of need you here. You say, great. Give me a great. Give me example. Let’s just say, I worked for you for a year. I feel like, oh, I got this crap. I don’t need Logan anymore. How would you approach me to say, let’s do this together, versus Justin you go and do it yourself.

Logan: So, humans go through these cycles. It happens in relationships, happens in business partnerships. It happens even employment. In the beginning, all they want is that job. They’ll even work for free. Those are main commissions, and they’re just thankful they got it. And then a year in, they start to get entitlement, like, I don’t need this that much. I already got it. I’m good. They need me. That starts to happen, and you can kind of sense those things. (Yeah). I start to look for that kind of stuff when it starts to happen. And I take people on walks, I like to walk, so let’s go for a walk. And when they know, let’s go for a walk, this either really good or really bad, but I talk about tell them what I said is happening. And I say, (Yeah) I think you might be ready to go out on your own. This might be the time, (Yeah). And I bring it up as quickly as I possibly can and that gives them the opportunity to address it or say, No, that’s not what I wanted. But once that conversation gets to happen. I talked to him about what it looks like they’re gonna make more money, probably, because they don’t have to share any when they’re doing those deals in the trading period, they’re getting 20 to 30% sure. So you’re gonna get chance to get all of it, but you’re gonna have to get platforms and programs that some of you are not even approved for. If you’ve got private investigative programs to find Google, they can’t get that without me (yeah) or without being a licensed product investigator, things like that. You’re gonna have to get that. You’re gonna have to go rent an office for the first 120 days. You don’t even get to do any deals. You just got to get all this stuff set up. Yeah, and by the way, you pay less on your taxes every year because of the way I do our accounting, you’re now gonna have a higher tax liability. These are things they’re gonna have to do. And if, if you think that’s a good idea, then it is the right answer. But if you don’t think that’s a good idea, and you want to just become a partner who become a partner when we get back to the office today and now get 50% of the deal instead of 20 or 30% then we’ll start tomorrow.

Justin: All right, everybody, before we get back to the episode, let me give a big shout out to Roddy at the rehab depot for sponsoring this episode. Listen, everybody. If you want to work with the number one contractor across the country, please reach out to Roddy at the rehab depot. This guy runs all of our construction nationwide and works with thousands of other investors across the country. He is entrusted not only to put together the budget and manage subcontractors, but to start and complete and close out projects from A to Z. Roddy runs the largest rehab Academy in the world. If you want to learn more about how to become an elite rehabber, you have to follow his program for only $25 a month. That is it. It’s that simple. Go to go.therehabdepotvip.com and sign up for weekly classes, live with him. This will be the greatest investment you could ever make if you want to rehab houses. What changes in their world? If they’re a partner at 50%.

Logan: Money that’s it. They still do exactly what they’re doing, but well I’ll tell you what else happens. They start to evolve into a spot where now I’m helping them hire, I’m helping them make management decisions. I’m helping them figure out the direction of their business. (Yeah) But they are kind of they take the ball from me. They kind of run with it at that point.

Justin: Are they going getting their own leads, or they still require or still relying on you to develop leads? It would go either way,

Logan: At this point I’ve basically show I got like I’ve got no more skills to teach you, although I’ve experienced it will definitely trump your skills. You know, everywhere I’m going for my leads, if you want to buy your own leads, if you want to go get them for free by hiring someone to do the research at Land Records, they can now, one thing that will rely on is my network. I get iPhone goes bananas with inbound leads from folks that couldn’t close deals, lawyer, judges, title, whatever. But generally, here’s the ball. Run with it. I’m here to fix anything that goes wrong.

Justin: Dude. I have hundreds of members that come across crap that has so much hair on it. I go, guys, this is a pass. I like you’re gonna have to do everything you just said, which is not my skill set. It’s not that I wouldn’t be able to do it. It’s like I’m built for volume and I’m built for speed and I’m built for that, right? I’m not built to get eyeball deep in the trenches on one deal. (Yeah) Now, like I said, you get paid these massive rips. I mean massive rips because you go provide value where someone like me, I won’t, I won’t provide the value because I’m just like, that’s too much. I’d rather go make my 25 pound deal over here versus 100 pound deal over here. But you got the deal done that made you 100 pounds right? So neither is wrong or right. What it is is, again, it’s everything. That’s why it’s all inclusive, like you know how to go flip a home that I’m not saying you don’t do that, or you’re not even saying you don’t do that. But what you have done is created a skill set that has given you the ability to get deals where someone like me, we’re gonna overlook it.

Logan: Yep, right. Investors normally want cheap, quick, fast. (You’re right). These deals are the opposite of (Right) slow. Kind of expensive to fix and not cheap to fix.

Justin: Right. But big profit, right? And so, you know, I have a friend. Tim Herridge, uh, who’s incredible, (yeah) he talks, yeah. So, he just went and came and spoke at my little meetup in Dallas. He says, “You can have cheap, fast and good, but you only get two of the three”. You don’t get all three, right? And so, but everyone wants all three, that’s the challenge, right? So, what shoot? What two are you gonna choose? And I would, I would encourage newbies, if you’re watching or listening to this, start with the path of least resistance. Like I would even tell you, even if you had a quarter million dollars sitting in your bank account. Don’t go flip homes first. Go wholesale. Two or three. Just to gain confidence, just to gain some certainty. It Doesn’t mean you need to be a wholesaler, right? But just go do that, right?

Logan: You got to get in the business. Get active. Start to learn. Pick things up and once you do that you figure out which way to go.

Justin: Same thing you and I did, right? We’ve just been in the game of a lot longer, right? You were wholesaling fix and flipping, and now you have verticals that are way longer, way deeper, but pay way bigger, right? (That’s right) And that’s the key of you know why the power of this is so real is there is no wrong, if you can think about it in your head in real estate, it’s doable, right?

Logan: Yeah, if you can find a path and you think there’s some profit on there. Like, that’s, that’s what I love about the real estate business. On a separate note. I remember I couldn’t get into like, law school and like my dad wanted me a dead be a dentist. You know, that’s where he went to school tour. But he became a CPA. Like, I’m looking at all these professional licenses, and at that age, I’m, like, getting high partying,(Totally, yeah). But the neat thing is, now I can make as more than most doctors. I know, because we sit down and figure out a problem, bring value to marketplace, get paid, (Right) and show up what we want, where we want, when we want.

Justin: And I was gonna say, the reason why they’re so, the reason why you have access to them, or they’re available, is because no one’s looking for that. No one intentionally, besides you is saying, ”hey, I want to take on the headache of doing this”. Because besides you, no one has the team. No one has the lawyers, the PIs, the people that can go do this stuff. That no one has the TLO account or whatever it may be that you’re utilizing. So, they actually really have a lot more heavy lifting than even you do at some point  you where (Yeah) that person though, right?

Logan: Yeah. So I had to figure that out. So I bought it. I was buying early on. I was buying these vacant lots for super cheap, before San Antonio gotten its really big lift, before the real estate market had turned around again. This was started looking at 2008 and nine didn’t do anything until several years, a year, several years later, I started just kind of aggregating some lots. And I’d found that I was buying these things for $5,000or $10,000 they were just across the highway from downtown (Yeah) Central Business District across the highway and boom. Stuff isn’t worth anything five or 10 grand a lot or create a house. (Yeah) And I’d seen this happen in Austin and Dallas, and I thought, if the value bleeds across the highway, this stuff is like multi multiplication that’s where those numbers go. It’s like, you’re not adding. So, I start buying all these properties and there’s a lot of title issues, and at this point, I’m really I don’t want that. Not gonna do it after I picked up a couple dozen I might spend pretty much everything I’d saved in the oil field. And I got a call for a realtor. He said he wanted to buy one of my vacant lots. I’d spent about 300 grand for about two dozen vacant lots. Realtor calls me, says he wants to buy one of them for 200 grand. Apparently, the values had risen since I was busy doing my work. A lot of this was off market trading, so you can’t see it on MLS. I had no idea the dude buys it closes on it. So a couple things happened. One of them, I’d gotten a. Two thirds of my investment back and I still have a couple dozen lots left. (Isn’t that great?) It was huge. (Yeah). But I also thought, Wow, I’m on to something. Let me go get some more. Well, things had changed enough. So, when I go back knocking on doors, these people were like, “I want 100 or I want 200”. So, cat’s out of the bag. But when I got to one of these properties, I wanted to sell it to the title company and they said you own 1/8 and what happened is I kind of got a little sloppy. I was just buying a five grand at a time. This one guy was telling me “I own it all”, looking to land records. And I did the best I could at the time. Thought he owned it, so I bought it five grand, got a deed recorded, no title insurance. Turns out he had seven siblings. Dude didn’t tell me about them. (Yeah). He got me. But so I went to an attorney’s office that was referred to by the title company and just start paying him by the hour and asking him questions. What about this? What about that? How do I do this? Over the course of the summer, I’d work through all the judgments and liens were recorded. I purchased all those shares of the property for very small money and I was in this one for a little more than the rest of them, but I had learned how to go buy these problems. I kind of it’s just the tip of the iceberg. Kind of scratched the surface, but I learned how to buy these problem properties (with no title insurance?) with no title insurance, so now 80% of what goes through my shop I buy without insurance.

Justin: Okay, we gotta stop right there, full stop, because I would argue to anyone else that is not Logan Fullmer sitting right next to me. Do not buy properties without title insurance (And that’s wise). Okay, so you agree with that? (A 100%) with an asterisk (Yeah). What is the asterisk? Why do you do it? What is the upside? How do you get through those? What happens if let’s really dive deep into when, Why you’re doing? What you’re doing?

Logan: So, remember in the very beginning of our conversation, I said, if I can buy something for remarkably less than it’s worth, I have a lot of protection. Let’s just say you buy it for five cents on the dollar, 10 cents to the dollar, or even less. I’m going to use $100,000 it’s an easy number, but if a property is worth 100 grand, you have 10 owners. Each person’s share is worth about 10 grand. When they sell it, they’ll each get about 10 grand from the title company. If I buy each year for $500 at a time, that’s (five grand total) five cents on the dollar. Wait, right? (Yeah, there’s five grand in) Five cents on the dollar. I’ve got room to file a quiet title lawsuit. I’ve got room to buy out a missing air I’ve got room to pay some delicate property taxes. I got room to carry it for a while. All these mistakes can be fixed, and there’s generally a budget associated with each one of these typical problems. So when I go to these people, my pitch usually, they’ve already dealt with this problem. They know it exists. They can’t solve it. My pitch is, look, the money I’m offering you isn’t directly correlated with the value of the property. It’s correlated with your seat at the table. I’m buying your seat at the table and you’re gonna leave and I’m gonna take that seat. So, I get in here at all your problems with your siblings, all the problems of the property. I now have to fix those on my own, so I’m just about to take it to the dance from you, and I hope I get the pretty girl there. But I might not. I might make some mistakes, and it doesn’t work well. It might work for me like it has for you in the past. So, I got a lot ahead of me. Can you see that? And the moment they put me in their shoes, instead of looking at me as some rich investor who’s about to make a lick on (Yeah), then it’s different. Then they say, I don’t care. I haven’t been able to sell this anyway. I’ll take 500 bucks.

Justin: This is huge. Put yourself in their shoes, or them put it. Have them put themselves in that seat. 30,000 foot view like, Oh man, I don’t want to deal with that. (I’m done). My seat sucks (Yep). And this guy is willing to sit in my seat and have to deal with it. I’m out and I make a couple dollars doing it.

Logan: Couple bucks, yeah. So, the next call is, I’m calling their siblings, saying, hey, business partner, Jenny, who you threw out of the property. And said, Never come back 10 years ago. She’s gone, but I’m your partner now. So maybe we should work this out. And if they want to work it out, great. Work it out. If they don’t, there’s the judicial system always has a resolve. There is always a backstop to solve all problems in front of a judge. So I tell them, I’m here to solve it quick and easy for you, but since I’m in the game, if we can’t, we’re going to take in front of a judge, and we’re going to see what he wants to do. And I know the law. I know what he’s going to do, but you don’t yet. So, let’s try to do this the nice way.

Justin: So, let’s just keep down this example. There’s nine other siblings. Now you have the 10th seat, yeah? And let’s just say all the nine want to say, “Hey Logan, we’re going all the way to the distance”. Let me

Logan: That’s rare. Usually what happens is there’s one person that says, F y’all, I ain’t selling it. Yeah, I should have inherited this, because I took care of mama, right? For her last year. (I know that story for sure). Everybody right, you know, and you don’t do this, that one. But the problem is that one isn’t doing probate, secure the title defects, to get all the owners in title that one or the administration of the estate, either way. They’re not mowing the place, they’re not paying the taxes anymore. Like they have this, this claim that’s unfair, that’s unjust.

Justin: They feel entitled to it (Right) And maybe at one point you would make an argument that you were may then.

Logan: But if you don’t defend what’s yours, it ain’t yours that long. That’s how Texas works.

Justin: And so do you only, by the way, that that’s the next question. Where are you doing this? What are the laws nationally? Do you only really know Texas in terms of this?

Logan: I know a lot of other states, okay. (But there’s still a systemor process?) Ultimately, a similar system works in the rest of the states. Some of your creditor laws are different. Some of your probate laws are different. (Sure) But at the end of the day, it’s very similar.

Justin: Okay, so let’s keep going down the path. You have a seat. There’s eight others that are maybe on the fence of what to do, because they’re all like, I don’t know, maybe then you have the one.

Logan: Yep. So the eight others, once a sibling sees that they got money, and they see that it was real and it worked, they start to fall that’s what usually happens.

Justin: This is where you need the time. You need the financial bandwidth. (No doubt). Can’t use debt on these) Real check is cash, which, again, poses certain challenges for newer investors. This is why, if listening, this is a lot more of an advanced strategy, right? Doesn’t mean you can’t do it. Just make sure you have the cash and you know what you’re doing. I tell you to go find Logan.

Logan: Or you find somebody. Dude, probably 30. My deals are referrals. I pay referral fees. I pay JV fees.

Justin: So, find Logan. Logan, what’s your Instagram? (Logan Fullmer, simple). Logan Fullmer, find him if you have this kind of stuff. And I’m also gonna probably ask you to join into teaching some of this stuff to my members here besides flipping.

Logan: What I like people to do is get a general understanding of what it looks like and then call an expert. If you got the money. You don’t need me, and I’m not trying to take share on your business, call local lawyer and start working through those problems yourself. Your first problems is to be a little more expensive to fix. After that, it gets cheaper because you start to know what you’re doing. But I would really recommend you call someone like me and work through the deal with me, because I’m obviously going to take a share of it, but I’ll spend my money.

Justin: The Newbies not going to know that is a no brainer. They should be reaching out to you a 100% of the time. Listen to me. Reach out to Logan, because he’ll actually do it, and he has the money to do it, etc. Reach out to Logan. So let’s keep going down this path, because I’m even interested, because I get, like, I spend a lot of money every year nationally. I get a lot of deals in Texas. I love Texas. I have members of my community within Texas that I think initially need to start reaching out to you immediately. I’ll put you together, because they get the craziest deals down. Saying it nuts, yeah, he’s in San Antonio (Yeah). And I’m like damn you have the craziest fucking deals, daddy. He’s like, That’s a San Antonio I’m like, yeah. So I say that to just say, let’s walk through this. So now you have the eight other people that over time, they start to fall right? They may even want a little bit more money. And you say, Hey, I gave I gave Jenny 500 they want thousand.  I’ll give you 650.

Logan: That’s part of

why I start offering just peanuts in the beginning, because I don’t know what’s ahead. So the first few people, they get almost nothing, very small dollars. Towards the end sometimes you have to pay up. You’re right. But once you get closer to the end, your risk is reduced because you have more certainty, you own more shares, you solve more problems.

Justin: So it’s almost like a business buyout, right? You’re almost, I mean, it is, right. I mean, it’s an asset, meaning it’s a house, but it’s when you know these? You know? Business Brokers come in, they start buying shares until they can get majority, and then they say, “hey guys, you have no more vote”. So, name your number, because you’re out. Like, I’m just gonna make this happen, right? (That’s exactly it). I love that. I just love psych a lot, because I love business, right? And so I just, like, psychologically (It’s a chess game), yeah. Man, so interesting. And so essentially, the people phase, you cut a check. Essentially, where do lawsuits come in? Where do you have to go to the city? Where do you know, where does the law come in? Where it’s like, all right, I’m gonna have to take this one either the distance, or I have to get so and so involved. And to get you know, title companies to approve or get this taken off of title where does that play all in?

Logan: So in the beginning, you’ve got to understand the laws in your state, because if you’re in a affidavit of airship state, which allow, which requires Pro or has probates, but also makes a provision for an affidavit of airship under the probate or this is under the state’s code. You can file an affidavit of airship instead of doing a full probate, which is a lot quicker and easier. If you’re in a state like New York or I don’t know places like that, where you’ve got Florida’s a probate state as well. You must file an administration of that estate, even if there’s no will, you got to go in front of a judge. That’s much slower, much more complicated. It’s tougher to get better.

Justin: But there are probate lawyers that can speed that up, typically, because they know what they’re doing.

Logan: They will. But the difference is you have to get in front of a judge and you have to have a personal representative involved that’s a family member. And once you get that done, you can then buy shares of the property. But in my state, I can have a family member doing a leadership today, and I can go buy shares on the street tomorrow. So my state is better for it, but it still works. In your state, it just happens a little differently. So you got to know that in the beginning. (Yeah). Once you understand that you’re dealing with people, you’re buying out as much as you can. If you there are two parts, then you’ve got your holdouts and you’ve got your, you know, breaks in the title chain or judgments to lean so your hold out, you just have to have a real conversation with you and say, I’d rather work this out with you. Do you want a little bit more money? I’ve got a top number that I can pay. (Yeah) and if it works It works is done. I’m gonna give that money to an attorney and go through. Judicial system, and what that looks like is one of two things. One of them is a partition lawsuit. Section 23 of the Texas property code is partition a real property. Yep, it me and your brothers and we can’t get along.

Justin: We could be by the way, take no YouTube. They could be. We really could be good.

Logan: But if we can’t get along what to with the property. I want to sell you don’t. We file a partition lawsuit and if the property can be divided equitably, like 100 acre ranch, can be cut in half, the judge will do that. If it’s a house or a smaller property that can’t be divided of kind or equitably, the judge will just order it to be sold, and then I get my share of the proceeds. You get your share. So let’s put you in the 1/9 owner and I’m in the 8/9 owner, I have amount of money I can give you. And if it makes sense, we happen. But if not, we go from the judge and the judge will order it to be sold at market. (Yeah). You get your 1/9 and I get my 8/9. (Yeah) Since I bought a lot of equity along the way, I’m still gonna make money. You’re still gonna get your 1/9.

Justin: Right. Which is in the example, I think it was $100,000 home.

Logan: Yeah, at that price point doesn’t even make sense for you. Might as well take my offer. (Right). That’s why I’ve got to be open, non threatening, very transparent with them. But sometimes folks pride and ego and anger, or is IQ, they have a really sometimes their IQ gets in their own way. If it’s low.

Justin: For sure well, so what is, what’s the length you’d expect a deal like this? This example, 10 airs. I know that might be excessive, but 10 airs, $100,000 home. Like, do you kind of us, just like we always underwrite when we’re flipping homes. We’re gonna hold this for six months, nine months a year. This rehab is gonna take that long, right? (Yep). So, you assess the cost of holding when you find a deal like this, there’s 10 airs, again, excessive, but you get my point. What would you assess the holding time for really getting this done?

Logan: If this works quick and easy and everybody’s on board? Man, I’ve gotten these things done in a week. Literally, people show up to my office, me and my attorney getting deed. (Give me the money. Give me the money. Yeah). I did a 65 air deal in nine months, and almost all of them were done in the first month or two. But traditionally, it could take, if I’ve got to file a lawsuit, it could take anywhere from nine to 24 months (Fair). Slower, I dislike that, but I will tell you 90% of time, once I file a lawsuit and the defendant’s been noticed by the officer of the court, they come back and say, “all right, you’re not getting around. Let’s cut a deal”. (Yeah) So really, it’s only one in 10 times the actual lawsuit has to get filed.

Justin: And so, you still are paying your lawyer for time he’s spending. And this is why I say, like this is advanced. You need to have cash, you need to have a bandwidth, you need to be able to do stuff like that, right? And I like that, right? Because I think there’s different levels of my audience that are listening to this right now that that’s why I say go follow you.

Logan: Here’s the cool thing, if you don’t know what you’re doing out there and you want to take a run at it. Take a run at the $100,000 property with half a dozen heirs. Because if you’re running a business and you got some money in the bank, set a budget of $15,000, 20,000 to buy all these people out. 20 grand, ain’t gonna bankrupt your business, but you will earn so much in that first deal. It is incredible. (Yeah). Then as you work at it, you grow. I mean, today I’m doing it on multi-million-dollar properties.

Justin: I was just gonna ask, like, what type of when you underwrite these deals, what type of budget are you like? I think I’m gonna need 35 grand for this property. I’m gonna need 10 grand for this property. Do you kind of like, monetize or at least put a budget together per property once you’re like? All right, we’re going for this one?

Logan: Yeah. It’s very circumstantial. So I can look at it and say, judgments and liens, title defects, and then characterization of owners. Are they friendly? Unfriendly? How many owners are there? Where are they located? I look at the mechanics of that. And at that point I say, we’re going to be all in for more or less this amount of money. (Yeah). Now there’s another kind of like a rip cord that I’ll pull if it’s just getting too hot in there and it’s not worth the fight or on this $100,000 deal. I’m not going to sue that guy because his equity is all worth 10 grand. I’ll spend more of that legal fees. In that case what I need to do is say, “Look Dude, your equity is worth 10 grand minus the taxes I paid off. It’s actually worth nine grand. Let’s go sell this at market together, and we don’t have to go see a judge”. You’re going to get your share of your share of your 10 grand. I’ll get my share of my 90% my 90 grand, right? Let’s just go do this together. And usually when folks can go directly to the market and get as much as they would possibly get, most times they agree. Sometimes I’m frustrated because I spend a bunch of money, I pay taxes, and I think it’s unfair, or they’re really big jerks. I say, No, you’re going to pay me your share of the taxes you owe me. Yeah, before we go to market, I could throw that wrench in the spokes, but some of us want to get the deal done.

Justin: We all use resistance right? Just get it done right. Even if you don’t make as much money as you want, you can make 50 or you can make 38, take the 38 and say, let me just.

Logan: Generally speaking, that happens, but I picked up 50% interest in a $5 million deal for $10,000.

Justin: You might want to take it the distance.

Logan: In that case (Yeah), I don’t care what goes wrong. I’ll spend, I spent 200 grand in legal fees already, quarter million, not on this one. (No, okay) But I’ve had projects where I’ve spent 150, 250 grand illegal fees. I would spend that on this one to take it the distance, because my upside is so, so large.

Justin: There’s no doubt. (Yeah). So, what piece of advice would you give someone that, first of all, do you think this is something in any state? What would you recommend someone that lives in Oklahoma or Florida? Like, where do you start with something like this were you know, besides just calling you, where can people start to understand how to take this on? And then the part two of this is like, where do they even find these deals? Where would you tell them to go find these deals?

Logan: These are literally everywhere. I could drive through your city and probably find 10 of them this afternoon before I got home. (Yeah) Everywhere. If you don’t want to spend the time to dig in the Land Records like we do and buy that. Usually, they’re all delinquent on taxes. When the problems get really bad, people quit paying the taxes.

Justin: So that point number, go find tax delinquent. (Yep) That’s a start.

Logan: But if you don’t want to spend any money or time, call everyone that you know is investing, wholesaling or works at title companies. Say, “do you have any deals that couldn’t close because of big title problems or in disputing ownership? Would you refer them to me?”.

Justin: That’s a gold mine right there. Everyone. Listen to that again. Rewind that again, that’s it. That’s a gold mine, meaning they already did the work.

Logan: So, what they bring to you is the context, contact information of the owners. They probably have a title commitment already. Yeah, that’s a lot of research. And the really important part about that is the family has already been made aware of how complicated and bad the problem is before you show up. I’ve had folks where I call on their 100 acre ranch, and call them and say, ” we’ve identified that you have substantial title problems. We’d like to buy it”. (Yeah). And they’re like, What? Who are you? This is all a lie. It’s not true. So, when the problems are well known to begin with, my job is a lot easier, and their job will be too.

Justin: Totally so this leans in heavily on what I actually firmly believe which is a cheat code for our business, and it’s every business. I was just asked to go keynote speak later this year at a conference. There’s gonna be 300 of the top investors, like high level, all seven figures, and my keynote speech is gonna be about people. And going from good to great the difference is people. What you just said a path of least resistance. Call your wholesalers, call your hard money lenders, call your title companies. Call whoever that has access to these deals that couldn’t close. (Yeah) Call them build relationship. Say, here’s the thing, I have a skill set that I could actually probably no guarantees. Get that deal across the finish line for you, it’ll be mutually beneficial. But what does that go back to?

Logan: So I’m gonna put myself in folks that are listening shoes, and maybe folks in your community, those kind of folks that say, Wow, I want a massive margin deal, but I don’t know. I don’t have any staring me in the face, and I don’t know how to fix them. This is an interesting thought I’ve ever thought about this way they could call everyone in their network and ask the things that we just listed off. (Yeah). Write them down on a piece of paper and make sure the value, usually I like to target your properties, or 250,000 or greater, because you can pay fair money to people and spend legal money and still do well, net a 100 grand. I like to net 50 to 100 grand, at least on these deals, or many of them are substantially better, but that’s kind of the threshold. So, if you’re looking for properties on that price, get the notes then either call it to our local attorney if you want to take it on your own, or info at ARP, usa.com, is my inbound lead inbox. We will never go around a person on a deal, because that is I heard that our name and our network is how we get, probably part of our business and build us. We will never go around somebody, but if you send that information to them, we’ll call you and talk through you with it. It could be the OE, JV with you. And you may not even have a thing under contract, but you got to go now get it from someone to bring it. (That’s right). It cost literally nothing, and could be a huge spread. Deal

Justin: It is always about people always. Even in your seat as you just promoted yourself, which I’m glad you did. You should be doing that, because, you know me, you have access to this that’ll get tens and tens and tens of thousands of downloads over time. It’ll live on Apple and it’ll live on YouTube, and people will reach out to you over time because of this connection going from good to great (Is people), is the people every time, right? And I would tell anyone here that is the difference between you doing okay and you actually winning in a big way, like Logan myself or others, right? Is our intention with people, right? He gave you a great idea to start, which was like, call your wholesalers, call your hard money lenders, call your escrow companies. Figure out what deals didn’t close, build the relationship. Call the agents. Build the relationship, and say, Hey, I have a skill set that I think I can help you get the deal to close. I’ll pay you fee if it get closes, it’s people (Yeah), every time.

Logan: On that note, the first five years of this business for seven years was very, very technical. (Yeah). In the last two or three years, I’m spending my time looking at partner satisfaction, recruiting new employees for the organization. I’m literally dealing with people now much more so than any technical I haven’t learned any technical thing in quite a while.

Justin: If people don’t that, they don’t, they don’t continue the growth, right? The technical, the tactical. It could get you a multi million dollar business, but if you don’t start focusing on people, right?

Logan: You’re gonna be working your self off doing that technical thing for it. Yeah.

Justin: And that’s the reality is, right? Is people over profit each and every time. Now, there’s different phases of that for you and me, right? We run businesses where we have to be the leader of the industry, leader of the business, not necessarily in the tactical. But now I don’t even lead, like I have my executive team I lead and then they lead their teams, right? So there’s iterations of all this, right? Where it’s not just go hire your acquisition person or your executive assistant or go hire the one like as you grow your ability and your skill set needs to grow, right? So this is why I pay coaches. I join masterminds. I spend well into the six figures every year, because I know I need to continue to skill set up to get to where I ultimately want to go right? (Your position that’s going for the people). It’s people every time.

Logan: There are no books with this. If has somebody on YouTube to talk about this part of it, because you’re catching some dude who’s running a business that’s far bigger than yours or mine would be, and you’re asking him, how does this happen? He literally has a 15 minute conversation with you and gives you the abstract. And we did, and you’re like, for real, okay go ahead.

Justin: I just had a meeting two weeks ago with someone who just exited for $300 million do you think he knows a thing or two that I don’t know yet? Yeah, right. And so he’s sitting down with us, having his structural game plan put in place all these cool things, and that will level me into a place where, you know? There’s potential to be in that, that marketplace, but you know, if anything again, it’s being or other people being intentional. So if you’re listening to this again, I can’t promote it enough. Follow Logan, right? Meaning like he’s going to be the person that’s going to be able to be able to help you, right? And so, Logan Fulmore, Instagram, but dude, you know, do you have any parting words for maybe that you know you could kind of part two ways. You could talk to the newbie who doesn’t know much, and he’s like, I got to figure this out. Or you could talk to the more advanced person is like, Dude, this is going to be my new strategy.

Logan: So the newbie, I would tell you that you that you need to get in there and start digging around. Start. You would be surprised. YouTube and Instagram and the rest of the internet now have so much technical information. It’s it’s mind blowing that didn’t exist. I was having to go buy, I would have to go buy the property code, the estates code, the tax code, those things and learn from them. Now this stuff is on Google, all the laws, the codified laws, that is crazy. You can read from expert title attorneys, all that stuff’s out there. Spend some time reading to familiarize yourself with it, and if you think it’s something you really want to get into, I’d encourage folks to do it, but I would still encourage people to send it to an expert as quickly as you can. I’ve got a deal right now. Dude called me yesterday morning, he’s in contract for $165,000 on a property. It’s worth 300 to 350 as it sits. There’s an issue, because two men, before they could get married in their state had a tenant in common with rights of survivorship deed. I’m sorry, joint tenant with rights of survivorship. That’s not how the law works in our state. The difference is, if you die, do your kids get your get your share? Or does your spouse have your share? Right? But if you’re not married, it was same sex marriage. We didn’t have the laws back then for that. So this was their work around for that. Well, when the partner died, there’s a piece of paper that he didn’t basically create that kind of created like a common law marriage, in terms of real estate property, so the deal can’t close. And the seller has now said, “Well, if you don’t close this in the next day or so, I’m gonna go sell it on market without you”. Now I think he’s got other issues, but he’s not smart enough to know that guy called me with it yesterday. This is a complicated one. I’d never actually done it exactly like this, but I got my attorney on it immediately this morning, a demand letter is going out to that seller that says you ain’t walking away from this deal. And you also have to provide this document. If you don’t provide this document, you need to provide us another 60 days for us to try to work through this problem. And if you don’t perform a contract says we’re gonna see you for specific performance, we need an answer about five o’clock today, or an extension one of the two. So this dude is about to lose his $130,000 spread deal. He called me. I got my attorney on it. We mailed it last night. Things going out this morning. I also found that the property was sold through a title company 10 years ago that created that deed the special language by this morning, before I got off the plane, talking to the underwriters that title plan, saying, “We all insure this transaction again, without this extra piece of paper, because you insured it the first time”. (Yeah). I got the resources. I know what I’m doing, so I’m gonna split the deal with this guy. (Of Course). It’s gonna end up netting about 100 grand. I’ll take half, he’ll take half, but we’ll flip this thing in two weeks, and I’ll have it solved in about a week. (Isn’t that crazy?) Otherwise, he’d have walked away from 150,000 maybe 100 (which goes back to what point Bro?) People, (People), boom, right. Yeah.

Justin: So, for those of you scared to cut a check for a coach. For those of you scared to cut a check for a mastermind. Get out of your own way. Because guess where Logan’s at, guess where I’m at, guess where the players that want to or that can help you. They’re in those rooms. They’re there to help you. And I just It frustrates me when people are like, Oh, but I want all these things. But. I’m scared with my money.

Logan: You can invest in Bitcoin or cryptocurrency or blue chip stocks. You’re gonna do that, but you’re not gonna pay an attorney to train you or someone to mentor you. I got a dude for nine months of the year. He tells me exactly what to eat, when to eat more, when to eat less, all that kind of stuff. Can I figure it out? Yes, but this dude tells me right now accountability and I get to walk around all summer the six pack at 42 years old, when everybody else is over here trying to figure all this crap out. Can’t get the answer, dude, it’s over this time, it’s fixed. Yeah.

Justin: Bro this has been one of the better, more entertaining podcasts, just because, dude, what your skill set is so unique in our space. You know, I talk about being dynamic. That’s why I was happy to have you on. It’s because this is dynamic. You are using all the tools and all the tool belts that there are out there, right to the point of attorneys to, you know? PIs to you name it, right? And you need to know state law and marriage law and all these things, which is such a higher level of utility, if you will, in our space, dude, I’m very excited for this podcast.

Logan: So I’ll leave y’all with a special. This is a fun one. This is a deal I ate three months ago. Okay, this has so once you solve the problem, then we look at it and say, what do we do? Should this go seller, finance route and we carry the paper? Do I make it a rental? If it’s a warehouse that I like? Do we just flip it and go make some money, just dump it on the MLS, or, last couple years, been doing some more entitlement work. This particular property is up in the Houston area. It fits several 100 houses, and a developer’s son was working on it, but the developer lives in West Texas. Developer’s son sadly passed away mid project, and we got wind of it through a title company, I think is where it came from. Anyway, we take a look at the deal. Developer said, Look, can I go develop it? Yes, I live so far away, it’s just not worth it. I’ll sell it to for my basis. So I contract it for $5 million for the several 100 acres. I’ve got a six month option on it, and I think I give them like 50 grand earnest money, something like that. We go back and I bring in my fee developer, because I’m not an expert that gonna pay the fee developer a big split of the deal. Go to the municipality locally and get brought up to date with where it was at, get a plan to finish the entitlements, get a development agreement completely negotiated with them, and now we’re pitching it to builders, and it’s gonna sell for ten million I contracted for five, and our spend totals about 200,000 while we own it. So it’s gonna end up netting about four and a half million dollars. And it was, it added distress component to it, because the owner didn’t know what to do, and the owner and then the original owner passed away. So there was that component, and then it was developed. It should close by the end of the year, and net about four and a half million dollars. (Isn’t that crazy). So, when you look at a ranch, a ranch property, we used to just flip those. Now we look at them and say, Can we put a house on it and develop it and sell it to them? Yeah, yeah. So it can go from as small as hundred thousand dollar downtown lot San Antonio to ten million ranch that’s gonna have homes, several hundred homes on it.

Justin: That’s phenomenal, dude. This has been a hell of a podcast. Appreciate you, bro,

Logan: No doubt. Thanks for having me.

Justin: All right guys that’s all for this episode. Go check out the site to flip and go to Justincolby.tv watch this episode. Follow Logan Fullmer on Instagram. We’ll see you on the next episode. Peace.