https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA2GqKut980

Mastering Pre-Foreclosures with ‘The Short Sale Queen’ | Nicole Espinosa

All right, Science Plipping podcast listeners, as always in this episode is brought to you by Rockely.ai if you’re looking for a seller, lead generating system that has automation in AI bot and has sellers coming to you, then Rockely.ai is your choice. Make sure you head over to the website, fill out an application and schedule a demo now to see the power of Rockely.ai.

Justin: All right, Science Plipping podcast listeners, as always in this episode is brought to you by Rockely.ai if you’re looking for a seller, lead generating system that has automation in AI bot and has sellers coming to you, then Rockely.ai is your choice. Make sure you head over to the website, fill out an application and schedule a demo now to see the power of Rockely.ai.

What is up? Science of Flipping family? Welcome back to another episode of the Science of Flipping podcast. As always, I have an incredible, incredible guest, a professional real estate investor, but specifically, this is the short sale queen, y’all, we got Nicole Espinosa in the house. How are you, girl?

Nicole: I’m good. I’m excited to be here in your studio.

Justin: Yeah, this is fun. So, we need to hit this hard, because I think in the real estate space, there is a niche, the short sale, the pre foreclosure. It is where I cut my teeth, frankly, back in 2007-2008 when the world was coming to the financial end. But I think a lot of people don’t talk enough about this, because there’s still a very, very lucrative niche. There are still plenty of people that have a lot of financial pain, that are dealing with this in their own personal lives. And you are the go to girl that I would tell everyone needs to be following you needs to go to your YouTube Short Sale Queen. For all you listeners, go follow the Short Sale Queen and YouTube. But let’s talk about it. Let’s talk about the state of the real estate economy right now. What you’re seeing as an active investor in the short sale space and pre foreclosure space, why don’t we just dive into that?

Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. So, thanks for having me, of course here. Yeah. So really, what we’re seeing right now is, so when you got in 2007 2008 actually got in 2009 so we got in the worst time ever. So everyone was leaving. We’re we’re getting in right, which I think speaks to, like, our personalities and what we’re doing. (Right, right. Little bullish on it). Yeah. We’re like, Okay, you go that way. I’ll go this way (Totally). But unlike 2008 and 2007 we’re in a different kind we have a different kind of borrower, a different kind of seller that’s distressed. So we have now, with the pandemic, with everything that had happened, anybody from 2020 and there’s two types of people in foreclosure right now. 2020 to 2022 or now 2023 those borrowers that purchased are now upside down and they over leveraged. Because if you remember couple years ago, it was, you know, everybody’s overpaying, and it was almost like a flex like, Oh, I got the deal 100,000 over asking like, okay, (Sweet), sweet. It’s like the opposite of investing, (Right). So, you had a bunch of homeowners that made these emotional decisions because of what was going on right and now they’re coming to us and saying, Hey, I need to sell because I have a financial hardship and they owe more than the house is worth. And so because right now, with the interest rates that increased, we have buyers that have less purchasing power. Yeah, so if it’s already hard enough for investors, for regular, traditional sellers. Imagine people that have to sell, that don’t have that flexibility.

Justin: Yeah. Well, so you’re talking specifically. The vast majority of people that you’re seeing in your business and your students in your community are homeowners that bought in 2020, to 2023, or in trouble?

Nicole: Yeah. So, we see two types that and people that are, there’s, like, no middle ground. It’s you’ve either just bought or you’re like, 15 years behind. (Yeah, yeah). There’s no, like, middle ground here. (Okay). So, those are the type of sellers that we’re seeing right now. They’re distressed.

Justin: And so, but what would you say to the people who are thinking, Yeah, but didn’t they get a 2.8% interest rate. What’s your point on that?

Nicole: Well, it’s irrelevant, right? So the terms are irrelevant. Their situation is now, of course, this has opened the door for so much creative finance subject to but what’s happening and what people need to understand, because most people approach Pre Foreclosure with logic. There’s nothing logical about a seller and foreclosure, (No, it’s all emotional) right. And so, someone that is, you know, emotional intelligence, you know, when someone has no logic, their emotions are high, like you have people in this situation that are not thinking about equity. They’re not thinking about, Oh, I need to do something. They’re thinking, I need to save my home, right? So if anyone doubts, or is like, Hey, where’s there’s no foreclosures, or is there opportunity in my market, just go look at the amount of people that got foreclosed on the month before.

Justin: Where would someone go find that data?

Nicole: So, you can look in the county records to see the active foreclosures. Now you can purchase, you know, pre foreclosure lists, auction lists and all that, but you can go for free on that. You just have to do the research yourself. (Which no one wants to do) No, and it’s not sustainable, but if you just want an idea, right? Like, just see how many are active. And these are all people that need help (Right.) And so logically, you’re like, okay, and even I know a couple of people have said this years ago, like, oh, there’s so much people have so much equity, they’ll just sell if they’re in foreclosure. And I was like, wow, you have never worked with someone in foreclosure before to say a comment like that, because I work with people days before a sale date that have hundreds of thousands of dollars of equity.

Justin: What are they doing? They’re trying to figure it out that all the way to the day before. They’re trying to figure it out is that what’s happening with them?

Nicole: Oh, they put their head in their sand. And so anyone that’s listening to this, that’s ever talked to someone in foreclosure is going to resonate with what I’m about to say. You talk to someone in foreclosure, you see the paperwork, you’re like, Okay, or the numbers, and you’re like, you have $250,000 of equity. And the first thing they tell you is, I’ve gotten this taken care of. That’s the number one objection. And they literally think I had a conversation with the bank, I talked to somebody, it’s gonna be fine. The foreclosure, it’s in three weeks, it’s gonna be fine, (Yeah). And then all of a sudden, four days, three days before, they’re still in that situation, and nothing panned out, and the bank is not calling them back, or never postponed it, or they got denied for the loan mod they were waiting on, (Yeah). And now it doesn’t really matter about the equity, because that’s if they can’t stop the foreclosure, they lose everything (That’s right). And so, what where people go wrong is that they approach these sellers with logic and saying, Hey, no, you need to sell. What’s wrong with you? Like and they’re arguing. And when you argue with someone that’s delusional, you’re never going to win, period. And you automatically put yourself in a you versus me, instead of meeting that homeowner where they’re at so that you can help them come to terms with what’s going on.

Nicole: You should just be a sales coach. Yeah. I mean, because the reality is this, what you are talking about is salesmanship is the reality. You’re not really talking about numbers and math. You’re saying you need to connect with your potential client, with your prospect, right? (Yeah). And I think your point is, too often people worry about the mail formula, what’s my cash offer going to be? (Yep), but they’re not actually saying what is the problem that I’m trying to solve? And let me listen to that, right?

Nicole: 100% . And they think like, they say, Oh, they’re delusional. I’m like, yes, they are. And that means, if you know that, then how do you connect with them? So 100% it’s sales, and it’s crazy, because when I started my education in the beginning, it was like, I want to give you all the tactical things, and I realized none of that really mattered, because the huge missing piece of what’s not taught is how to connect with these people is how to meet that person where they’re at, is how to get them to arrive to the reality. Instead of trying to sell them, you’re educating them. And then your confidence is, I teach this to my students, that the mindset should be when you’re talking to the sellers, I’m the best thing that’s ever going to happen to them, and they just don’t know yet. And if I’m not, if they don’t know that, if they don’t know like, their house is on fire and I’m the only one with the water to put it out, like, I’m gonna approach it completely different than then, oh, well, you know, I’d love to help like and not confident, but if that’s my mindset going into it, then I’m gonna have a sense of urgency. (Yeah). I’m gonna have a sense of urgency because I know their house is on fire, and I know that they just can’t see that, and I know I can help. And so it’s just a completely different mindset than, hey, this is Nicole. I’m, you know, wanting to buy her house. I see it’s an auction, and they’re like, click.

Justin: Right. What? So, let’s even talk not going through the whole script. And you have an incredible community teaching people how to handle all this and go through all that again. Make sure you check her out on YouTube, Short Sale Queen on Youtube and follow her all over social medias. Nicole Espinoza, Short Sale Queen. So, what is the beginning part of that script? If I’m the homeowner, and you do reach out to me or whatever, however I get in your world? (Yeah) Are you coming in with the confidence to say, Hey, I know you’re in some trouble here. I know I can help you. We just need to be patient together. I done this a long time. There are solutions to your pain. I’m happy to provide them to you, if you’re okay with me, like, what? How does that go? What is the talk track of that?

Nicole: Yeah, so most people get stuck. And there’s like, three different phases of cold calling, which everyone tries to avoid, right? They all try to avoid cold calling. And I’m like, you have to have to cold call in the beginning, because why would you spend so much money on direct mail and then practice on these paid leads? (Right) No, get your reps in. Know how to talk to them. You can’t market to someone you don’t understand, right? And then if you for some reason, if someone does call you back, they hang up, and your cost per lead just went up tremendously because you’re practicing on these leads, right? So when you’re approaching these sellers, you know, the biggest struggle for most people is getting past those first 10 seconds, I can’t even say 30 seconds, the first 10 seconds, right? Because of the way that they introduce themselves. So as an investor, when you’re approaching it and you’re saying, hey, Justin, so, hey, listen, 123 main, you know, I wanted to write a cash offer. I wanted to see, you know, I see you’re in foreclosure. And immediately, when people think about real estate investors, what do they think? They think I don’t want to sell, first of all, and second of all, you’re trying to scoot me over, and you’re trying to lowball me. And that’s not what I want, right? Right, but it definitely doesn’t say you’re on my team. It doesn’t, definitely doesn’t say you want to help. It just says, and that’s just the intro, (Yeah), right?. So, in the beginning, what you know, what I teach is, first of all, remember, this is just a conversation, (Yep), human being to human being. So how would you call your family member? How would you call your friend? You’d say, Hey, Justin, it’s a poll or Justin? (Right, right) Super casual (Yeah) and I’m not saying that you’re not going to tell someone you’re an investor or a realtor or whatever. I’m saying, don’t lead with that, okay, because you automatically are having this person write you off, (Right), instead of giving you the opportunity to tell them about the solutions and get passed those barriers. And so I always tell people, I’m like, Okay, first of all, keep it casual. (Okay) Once you get passed that, and they’re like, Okay, you know, that’s where a lot of people struggle. Okay, great. So now you’re in the middle, and you’re like, Okay, you’re trying to build rapport or keep them on the phone long enough. Like, why should they care? Right? The longer you can keep the person on the phone, the more their walls are gonna come down, and the more they’re gonna tell you, and the more they talk, the more you’re gonna hear what the truth is, (Yeah), what is their pain points? Why are they in this situation? And so, you know, once you go passed, you know, Justin, like, Okay, who are you? I keep going, they could literally tell me, go to hell. And I’m like, I know it’s just frustrating, you know, like, no, I agree with everything they’re saying. (Yeah). They could tell me the sky is black, and I’m like, You know what? I see that, but I also see some blue, so, yeah, I can kind of see where you’re coming from, because I’m not arguing with them, (Right). I know they’re delusional. I know that they’re in denial, but now if I can start poking holes in that certainty, that denial, that delusion, then I get them to come back into reality, because they’ll tell me, oh, the banks, the bank, I already got this taken care of. And I use that example because that’s like the number one objection. Like, I gotta say here, I’m good. Leave me alone. They don’t really you

Justin: So almost you beat the objection by saying, hey, I’m sure the banks have told you this is gonna be easy. There’s an easy resolution. We hear that all the time. So, you basically overcome that immediately, so that I can’t even use it.

Nicole: Yeah. I mean, and even they’re gonna tell you that regardless, so I’m just gonna, I’m just gonna agree with them, and this is the key, I agree with everything that they say, (Okay), right? Always. I don’t ever disagree, because I want to be on your team, (Right). I want this conversation for you to feel, for you to go from random cold caller to I’m working with Nicole. Nicole’s got me. That’s what our clients say. Like, oh, Nicole’s got me. She’s, I don’t want to work. No, I’m good. (Yeah) That rapport, that confidence. So, when they say that, and I’m agreeing with them, like, say, for this objection, specifically, I keep going, because they’re thinking, okay, great, you’re going to get off the phone. And I’m like, no, I keep going. Okay, awesome. Justin, so what did you end up doing? And it always throws them off guard, because they’re like, I thought you were to gonna leave me alone. Now, (Yeah), right? like, that was my “F” off thing that I said to you. So again, the more that they say, the more I get to say things. So if you keep going with that, it’s like, okay, well, I talked to my to my lender, and I filled out an application, so they’re going to help me with the loan modification. Awesome, but the only thing that I’m worried about Justin is it still shows that it’s up for auction. So did you did you tell Wells Fargo, or, you know, whatever that you know, did you get a postpone? Did you request a postponement? And they’re like, well, and then this is where I get to show my expertise. Is where I get to (Show value) keep going and show value. And then even I even teach, like, how to talk to the bank with them, to really create that validity of like, okay, I’m not asking you for anything. I’m not selling you anything. (Yeah). Let’s figure out where you’re at, and then I’m going to be the person that’s going to help you with the best reason.

Justin: So, you’re definitely not trying to do a one call close. This is not that type of strategy. Or are you? (I my goal is) you can, (You can absolutely)right? But is that your intention? Because as someone so I’ve bought a lot of short sales, but I do it typically because either it’s quite literally about to go to the auction, I actually have the cash. So people come to me and they know I can close. I’m not targeting them. So, I’m actually asking questions, because it’s actually a niche I don’t target for my own marketing. (Yeah)

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Justin: When I think about giving the value, I would think you’re gonna also say, Hey, here’s the thing that you’ll probably want to ask the lender the next time you have a call, here’s the three or four or five things that I think you should ask, here’s why, here’s what you should be looking for. What’s going to happen is, and I’m guessing, I’m paraphrasing for you, but they’re going to realize I haven’t asked these questions. I got to call the bank back, but now you’ve offered them so much damn value because you’re in support of them. Just saying, these are the things you should be asking for. This is what you should be looking for. That would essentially think that they’re either gonna call you right back when they realize the bank can’t do what they needed to get done, (Yeah) or you just have an easy way to follow up. Is that kind of?

Nicole: A 100% and that’s absolutely the mindset. And so you said the one call close. I always, I’m always driving the bus. I am always in control. And if you say, if you lose control, or if you say things like, let me know, you’re sending them back out in the wild, (That’s right). And these people, they want someone to tell them what the next steps are. And so, everything you do, you make it easily digestible. Step one, this is what we’re gonna do. Because right now, the reason why they haven’t taken action, the reason why they haven’t done anything, is because they’re so overwhelmed, they’re shut down, right, right? They cannot see out of their situation. So, if I do you know powerful clarity is like you know that in your business, you know that in your decision making? Well, if you can provide clarity for that person, they’re like, okay, tell me what to do next. (Yeah). And I’m almost like talking to their subconscious, because it’s like, I’m giving them this level of comfort because I’m like, okay, we got this. Let’s go. Let’s step one. Oh, but what about this? No, don’t worry about that. We’re gonna take this in steps. So, step one, let’s talk to your bank together. Let’s figure out if they did approve the loan modification, because if they did fantastic, then let’s look over the terms, make sure it makes sense.

Justin: So, you even offer that right? Because again, back to I’m just off offering value. Let me make sure I help you. I want everyone to kind of stop for a second, because what she’s really saying, really, truly boils down to just expert salesmanship, but also customer service. And the rich is the rich, because when you walk in the rich, you literally feel like anything is like they’ve got every little thing you possibly ever need. I think everyone needs to realize what you’re really saying right? The second is, it’s not as much about the tactical it’s not as much about the numbers. It’s not what you can offer, what the rehab cost is. That’s all irrelevant until you get the homeowner to get to a place of like, oh, I need to do something. And Nicole has been so great, I’m gonna do something with Nicole. Essentially, is what you’re saying.

Nicole: A 100% and then I’m also walking them through where they’re not gonna ghost me, they’re not going they’re gonna have so much clarity that the next investor that’s gonna call them, that’s going to pitch something, they’re like, Oh no, that’s not going to work because of this, (Right). Because they’re so educated, of like, Oh no, it doesn’t work because of this. So it removes doubt and that overwhelming of like, all the decisions I need to make, no, no, we’ve arrived to the same point together. I didn’t convince you. You, I gave you a safe place to say no. And then you walked through everything and realizing, okay, this is what my reality is, right? And I genuinely want to help, (Yeah), right? I know the money is going to come. You can both help people and make really good money. (Yeah of course) my whole business is a testament to that.

Justin: The more you make more money by the more value you serve, right? (100%). So, the intro to that in our world of real estate investing, like the general script that we would try to teach is something like, Hey, Nicole, you know, if you’re outbound calling or a lead comes in, just want to introduce myself. My name is Justin. I’m here at, you know, HDRI Holdings LLC. We’re a buyer across the nation for single family assets. We either fix and flip them or buy and hold them. My job is to figure out, you know, where you stand in terms of selling. If we can be a right fit, great. If we can’t, that’s also okay. I can point you in the right direction. But right out of the gate, you know, we’re looking to buy a home. Do you avoid that right out of the gate. What is that first quite literally, like, 10 seconds, 15 seconds of intro?

Justin: Yeah. So that works really great when someone is not distressed. But if you’d make that approach, you’re going to get, like, the five to 10%. I want to teach you how to get the 80 (Okay), right. What? Because the reality is the 80% Percent do not want to sell, (Yeah), period. So, if you approach that and you use that script, they’re gonna say, Thanks, Justin, I appreciate it, but I’m good. (Yeah). I don’t want to sell. I’m not selling my home. Like, why are you? Why do you think I’m selling? Right? And you’re like, Oh, well, I see you’re in pre-foreclosure. And now it’s almost like they feel exposed.

Justin: Of course. Now you’re like opening the wound, like they don’t want to be in foreclosure, they don’t want to lose their home. And you’re like, lose their home, and you’re like, Oh, I see you’re about to lose your home. So how can I help?

Nicole: Right. And so, this is why I say most people approach it with logic, because even the people with the best intentions which I get it where they’re like, okay, but I’m offering them a solution. I’m not doing anything. But that’s not the way they see it. (Right). The way they see it is, I fell behind on my mortgage because I had a financial hardship divorce, you know, got sick, like, whatever that is, and now you’re coming to me because you see that I’m in distress, and you’re trying to take advantage. (Yeah). And so as long as you are putting yourself in a position where it becomes a you versus me, you will. It doesn’t matter how great you are and what you have to do, like we’re to offer they’re never gonna hear it.

Justin: Do you bring up the house at all in that first 10-15 seconds?

Nicole: No, not at all. I’m literally just making about them. I will literally have a conversation for 30 minutes. I have their social number, their loan number, their property address, their life story, and they’re ready to sign a contract, and they’re like, oh, by the way, who did you say you’re with? Yeah, and that’s how you know it’s a good conversation. (Yeah). Because the reality is, they don’t care about you, right? They don’t. We feel, as human beings, like we have to qualify ourselves. We approach and especially, I see this with realtors a lot, where they’re like, wanting to be super professional, and they feel like, I need to tell you, or anybody that’s been in the business for a while but hasn’t really done a lot, and they love to start conversations off with I’ve been doing this for 20 years, and it’s like, cool, right? I don’t care. What does that have to do with me, right? Because we feel almost like I have to, I have to show you my worth and my value. And I’m telling you, look at it the opposite. Show your value. Show your worth through your knowledge and make it about the prospect. And the reality is, you and I both know people love talking about themselves, so if you give them a safe space to go on about their life story and all this stuff, you’re gonna get the information you need to be able to give them the solution.

Justin: I would assume, somewhere in your world, people can get a script from you. Where would they go to do that?

Nicole: You can go, if you go to YouTube, I have all of the links. I have them on my website. We give free scripts.

Justin: I love it. Make sure you go there, because if you guys want to know exactly what to say and how to say it, she’s giving away gold

Nicole: Cold calling and door knocking, (All of it), all of it free.

Justin: So, do you say you’re with a company looking in real estate at all? What is like? Literally, the scripted 10 seconds. I mean, it’s the first 10 seconds, like, how do you introduce yourself? Because for us, again, we’re targeting the wide, so short sales and niche. I go wide because I want all of the opportunity. (Yeah). So, I just go directly to say we’re looking to buy assets in the community. We love the market. We want a bigger footprint. Not all properties work for us. That’s totally okay. We fix and flip, or we buy and hold, just depending upon the asset. Would love to have a conversation about your interest in selling, if you have any. If not, that’s totally fine too, right? So we kind of give them the ways out.

Nicole: I love that. You just did the whole script. That’s how you know, it’s like in you, oh, you just did the whole thing,

Justin: Yeah, if you keep going, but yeah. And so do you do any of that? Like, is any in that first 15 seconds? (No) Nothing.

Nicole: It’s so simple. Now there’s two different scripts like, well, the script has a lot of different ways that you could do it, right? But it’s all pretty much the same. And the reason why it’s different is because I would approach someone that that’s in pre foreclosure, which means that they could have months, totally different than someone that has an auction date, yep. Because if someone has a foreclosure date, we don’t have time to play around with this. Like, I’m going to be very direct, (Yeah), right? And they know (That’s right). So, someone in pre foreclosure might be more in denial. So, I don’t want to be so direct, (Okay), so the script on someone that it is direct, like, you have a foreclosure date in two weeks, right? I would say something like, Hey, Justin. Or I would say, Justin, yeah, oh, hello, hey. So, listen, a really quick 123, main, it still shows up. It’s for auction. Were you able to get that stop?

Justin: I think we got it all handled.

Nicole: Oh, perfect! So, it’s so what did you end up doing?

Justin: And this is where I don’t know the answer. What they would say? What would they usually say? (So usually they’ll say), Oh, I see you’re just, that’s right, that’s it. (That’s literally that simple). I see there’s a forward closure date for May 1, April 16, as a recording this, right? So, it’s like, yeah, I see that.

Nicole: Super simple. And just to get the conversation going for them to say something, right? So they’re gonna say, in that situation, they’ll say something like, Oh no, no. I know. I’m working with my bank. I’m like, Oh, great. So are you doing loan modification? Like, what are you working out? And I keep going, right? And, of course, tonality is huge. I I teach tonality and NLP, and all that. But that’s again, it’s not because you’re not attacking, you’re not questioning, you’re you’re, again, trying to keep it to like, you’re my friend, like, I care, right? (Yeah). And so, you know they’re gonna keep talking. And again, if someone has a foreclosure date, like, this is where I’m like, Okay, well, Justin, even if you’re like, really hard headed, like, those are the best ones, right? The ones that are like, Screw you, “F “you.

Justin: Like every man ever.

Nicole: Yeah. Especially the whole woman man thing too. It’s like, I gotta tell you, I know everything, and I’m like, okay, great, no problem. Yeah, you do. So, can you show me why this still says, you know?

Justin: Remember I’m the expert. You don’t know me yet, but I’m the expert. You don’t know what you’re doing, I got this.

Nicole: Right? So instead of like.

Justin: I feel like this is husband and wife conversations too. Guys should just be listening to you right now on this and be like, just say, yes, honey, I’m I don’t know what I’m doing.

Nicole: Well, it’s funny you said that, because on my Youtube, I’ll see comments, because I still see, like, the comments. I try not to, but, like, I still see a comment, so I’ll try to respond, and I’ll have people be like, Thanks for the marriage advice.

Justin: Totally, I’m literally sitting here, like, are you just talking to every husband in the planet right now? Just listen to your damn wife. She’s always right.

Nicole: It’s always a wife that’s like, the driver where it’s funny.  But back to So, yeah. So that person was like, Oh, what are you doing or whatever. And if they’re like, super hard headed, I’m like, oh, oh, absolutely. Well, it sounds like you know what you’re talking about. Justin, like, that’s great. So the only thing I’m Worrying about (Male ego). Right? So, exactly, and so okay, but Justin, can you tell me why it still shows up? Because it’s, I see this on the list. You want me to send it to you, right? You see I’m doing there. I’m like, validating him, (Yeah). But also poking doubts, poking holes and doubt into his certainty. (Yeah) Right? Because objections are just a smoke screen of uncertainty, (Yeah) right? They’re telling you this because they’re not even sure what you’re saying is something that that’s gonna work for them and all of that. And I have a whole training on that, and so anyway, so at that point, this is where it gets real, right? Because I know that. You know that, I know that this that you’re be asking me right now. (Yeah) actually trying to filter right now.

Justin: No, you don’t have to filter. Let them fly.

Nicole: But, but no, like, so you know you’re trying to bullshit me, and I’m to I know that it’s a sale date, and so now I’m giving you a safe place to be like, Oh, well, I gotta check. Like, okay, Justin, I would check right now, because the foreclosure gets in two weeks. And if it’s not 100% I’ve seen so many people that wait till last minute, and the longer you wait, the less options you have. And so see how I just changed the whole narrative of the conversation so it can go any direction.

Justin: Well. Now you’re giving a lot. Well, what? What else can you know because the word options now, now I’m thinking like, well what are my options?

Nicole: Exactly? And anytime we say that, we’ll even have on the script, you know, you have so many options? Please don’t let your house foreclose, like on the texting script, and that, in itself, gets so much for so many responses, because people are like, they’ll literally just say what you just said, (Yeah), well, what are they? (Of course) What are my options? What are you talking about?

Justin: And then you want to get them on the phone if you’re texting, right? So you can have this conversation (Exactly). This is incredible. So, what happens if this person is 90 days out, you know, it’s more pre foreclosure, (Yeah) not auction date. How does it change?

Nicole: So, it’s, I don’t mention the foreclosure date, or I don’t say, like, may 2, or anything. Like, I’m not as aggressive. But if it’s, you know, 90 days out, I’ll see something like, have you gotten it taken care of? (Yeah). And so, it’s more generic, and it’s like less.

Justin: They probably always say yes. I’d say a vast majority Yes. I got to in the habit.

Nicole: Exactly. So that’s where I go into the next like, great. You know, what did you end up doing? Or that’s a good I’m so glad because you showed up on my list. And do you see it? So it depends either way, kind of like, fill out the conversation, but on the script, there’s like, two or three different responses to that.

Justin: And you never mention an entity. You don’t say, Hi, I’m Nicole from so and so. LLC, (No) that’s amazing, that you can just keep vomiting all over and giving you all these answers, and you’re like, all they know about me is, my name is Nicole.

Nicole: Literally I don’t even say my last name. (That’s phenomenal). Like most of the people, I’m not kidding, 30 to 45 minutes in, and they’re they don’t know my last name, they have no idea who I’m with, but I have made them feel so comfortable, and most importantly, I’ve made the conversation about them that they want to tell me.

Justin: Well if you, you’ve obviously studied sales a long time, right? But what everyone needs to understand is that’s the only conversation that matters, is what’s in it. For me, every conversation ever is like we are a part of a mastermind together in that entire room of 300 people. When you’re talking to someone else, the other person is thinking, what’s in it for me during this conversation every time, and I can feel it when they’re talking to me, I’m like they’re trying to figure how, like I can serve them right and but that’s every human connection is what is going to be affecting me in this conversation. So always keep that in mind, regardless of the scenario. Let’s dive a little bit more into options that sellers actually have, that you know, the state of the market, the real estate market. How many people are out there right now that are really in this type of pain? What type of options are you able to come up with? How many you know? What are the ways to target these people? Was talking to a little bit of the granular like, this isn’t I can’t imagine this is nearly as big as like when you and I first got started, in 2007-2008. But maybe it is. Again, I don’t target this niche. I target wide. So I’ll go, like, the whole United States versus just this is it still a pretty big niche?

Nicole: Absolutely. First of all, remember, we’re hyper focused, right? So we don’t need to cast a large net, because the leads that we have like, we get a higher return because we’re solely focused on these people. It doesn’t matter what’s going on in the economy, there’s always going to be people that need help. Yeah, right. And so, you know, short sales, one exit strategy, people are over leveraged. They owe more than the house is worth, but they have so many more options especially.

Justin: Where is that? If I can ask, where is that? Where do people like? I feel like I feel like the market is appreciated for over a decade. Where in the hell is where someone owes more, I guess, if they refi out and, you know, wanted to go buy a boat, so they over leverage themselves.

Nicole: I get that all the time. Because really, especially in what you’re doing, you’re so removed from like this side, (Yeah), but what you don’t see, it will, first of all, let’s remove the idea that the market has any indication of whether someone’s going to be upside down. Just take away, because even though it absolutely influences where there’ll be more it has nothing to do with someone’s personal financial situation. (True). So, I’ll give you an example the people that we’re working with, they not only overpaid, right? So they bought in 2022 they overpaid. Well, yes, of course, the market, you know, balancing out, you know. And yes, house is appreciated. But right now, especially in certain areas, people are not able to sell what they could and all of that. But that aside, because it’s not that much of a dip, right? You have people when the reason why I say focus on someone’s personal financial situation is because when someone’s behind on one thing, they’re generally behind on everything else, totally. So, this is why it doesn’t really matter about the market, because you can be in the best market ever, in fact, when arguably, after 2008 and we were in like, 2011, 2012 we were, like, going up drastically.

Justin: Crazy amount of appreciation for sure.

Nicole: And yet we had a crap ton of short sales. Because people, if you think about it, City liens, HOA liens, second mortgages, taxes, I mean, all of that, plus, if they’re not maintaining the home. So it’s as is. I mean, it’s not hard for someone to be upside down when you start, you know, with all the debt and the liens and all of that, yeah, because, again, it’s their personal situation. And so when people look at it, especially, you know, people drive me crazy. Are like, the analysts that they’re like, Oh, well, the economy is so great. Like, you know, is there something in family that actually did that? Actually did that. We kind of, like, went head to head on this panel, and it was really funny. But he was just like, well, you know, the numbers say that we’re gonna appreciate so much that we’re not gonna have anybody that’s really gonna need help. And I was like, wow. Like, you’re so disconnected from reality. Like, because that’s because, if that’s the case, then how can we help over 100 people a month (Right) and we have an entire community of people that are doing it.

Justin: Totally and you’re just you and your market and your sector, (Yeah) and that’s not to your point, the community. And then just everyone else is going through it.

Nicole: We’re across the country we’re nationwide (Right). So, we get a full a pulse on all the states, not every single one, but the majority. So, we get to see, between us at the short sale queen, plus all of the members in our community, the investors and realtors in all different markets, what’s going on and the influx. And so that’s where the short sells are, is like the people that personally they it, you know? And then think about this too, the people that we didn’t even talk about the forbearance. And so, after 2020 we had 10.1 million people that stopped paying their mortgage. (Of course, yeah) 10.1 million people. And the way it was packaged was, hey, don’t worry about it, the bank’s gonna help you. Like, I went on a ran on Facebook that went viral, and I was like, Guys, stop telling people to stop paying their mortgage for the love of God, please, like we are the professionals, like we’re supposed to be, especially as realtors like, because I’m a realtor too, right? I’m both. And so people are looking to us for advice and looking up to us, and you’re telling them, oh, don’t worry, just call your bank. Well, what happened was, you know, the President kicked the can down the road because he just got an office, and he’s like, I don’t want foreclosures attached to my presidency. So, what did he do? Postpone. Postpone. Postpone. So, forbearance is supposed to be a temporary pause on your mortgage payment. So for the people listening that don’t know what that is, historically, lenders have only offered forbearances for two to three months, because if someone. Is behind on one payment, they’re definitely not going to or struggling to make one payment. They definitely can’t make three or four at once, (Right), right? So, the forbearance option was strictly for people that were, you know, behind, but like, in between jobs and like, they’re gonna they just need time to catch up (Sure). Well, what we decided to do was extend it for over a year (Sweet). So, all of these people stopped paying for over a year. Well, once you stop paying, you adjust your lifestyle accordingly, (Of course) even if you didn’t legitimately have a hardship. And then you factor in the people that did have a hardship lost their jobs and could never catch up. So you have a wave of people. Now, it wasn’t 10.1 million, right? It went down 5 million, 3 million, but you still have millions of people that are now we’re seeing like, oh well, so what happened? Oh, well, you know, I did it forbearance, and then I got a $50,000 bill from from the lender, and I couldn’t pay it, and so that I was forced to go into a loan modification. And now they restructured my loan. I was at a 2% interest rate, and now they want to put me at 8%. Because whenever they they restructure, they put you at the current interest rate. (Sure) There’s all those people that you’re talking about, the worst thing they could do is fall behind, because now they’re at today’s interest rate.

Justin: So that’s interesting. I would have thought, again, not being in the niche, I would have thought they would have just restructured. So let’s just say the 50 grand they were just tacked it onto the back of their loan. So instead of owing $100,000 they owe $150,000.

Nicole: So the thing you need to understand is that the loan modifications are the best thing for the lender. The lender is a financial institution, so there’s never a situation where there (Who always), I want to help (The bank). Yes, (Right). In fact, if you want to learn how to market. Look at the way the government markets programs. They are the best marketers. They say things like, we’re going to put a forbearance plan and a COVID relief for you. So what we’re going to do is we’re going to restructure your loan. Don’t worry. We’re going to add we’re going to extend your loan from 30 to 40 years. Don’t worry. So, I may not be the smartest person in the world, but if I’m in a mortgage for 20 something years, and now I have a 40 year mortgage, I don’t really feel like you’re helping me here. (No, it’s a lot more interest I’m paying). I mean literally, the lenders now have these notes that are performing because now you’re current, and they get to add all of this extra money on their books, like this is amazing for the lenders. Look at their portfolios now they’re like, you had a $200,000 loan now it’s gonna be a four. I mean, that’s crazy (Right). And so, and they do it a couple different ways, like, you know, FHA, not to get into too much, but like FHA, they’ll create a second mortgage. So, it’s like a non performing loan. I mean, there’s just so many ways that they can structure it. But most of these people that do loan modifications end up in a short sale because none of that debt is forgiven. They restructure it and add the interest payment, the late fees and all of that, and now when you go to sell, you’re essentially paying into something that you can never get out of.

Justin: And these are the same people that a lot of them, I’m assuming, some level, have some financial pain with jobs, income, that because of the economy has shifted in the last 12 months. And so now that wasn’t a big deal while they had the job, they’re like, all right, not great, but I’ll keep paying for the extra 10 years. Now the economy shifts. Things are getting a little tighter. Now they have to do a short sale because they owe too much,

Nicole: Or what happened. 100%. And then what we also see happen with a lot of people that actually get approved for a loan mod, because a lot don’t, right, because the loan modification, you have to prove that you can afford it. You have to show financials all that you know, they’re going to determine the debt to income ratio. But what we end up seeing too is that they have a trial payment. So if the lender approves you, and it doesn’t matter the terms, right? Let’s just say they approved you, and they’ll give you three trial payments. And the majority of the people end up missing the trial payments because they haven’t been used to paying, right? And once you miss it back in foreclosure.

Justin: Yikes. So, what are some solutions that you guys offer and investors should be offering? I mean, I think this is a podcast that all investors are watching and listening to, what are the solutions? And you’ve already hit the head, like, don’t come in with mail, formula and cash offer. What are you guys doing in your own company to be a value add to the homeowner?

Nicole: So, the biggest value add is to determine, like, where their current situation is right. So if, of course, the majority, and just understand the majority are going to tell you, I want to keep the house. Like, okay, great. So here are the options to keep it. You can apply for the loan modification. If they are only two or three months behind, like, anything less than six months, they could apply for forbearance, but, but you know what? Before we go into that, tell me what’s going on. Why did you fall behind? And that question is huge, because the reason why they’re there is going to determine the solution. Because if it’s a long term hardship, it’s not short term, meaning like it’s not going to be resolved anytime soon, there’s no other options but selling. (They have to sell). They have to sell. If like they are just in a situation where, like, the money’s coming and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I say that like that, because someone always says the uncle is going to pay (Yeah) you know, I’m like, Great, let’s put a deadline on it. Yeah, he hasn’t paid up to this point.

Justin: And just to that point, you guys are nurturing that homeowner for like, they say, okay, my uncle is going to cut me in check in 45 days. I would think internally you have a sequence of following up, nurturing, calling, (Yeah) because that’s where the value.

Nuicole: 6, 7 touches is (67 touches), 6 to 7 (Oh 6 to 7) is normally when the contract signed. (Yeah okay). So, if you are even the people that you know, they’re like, already doing a loan mod or whatever, we know realistically, that they’ll probably fall behind again, and so we want to make sure that they’re in a sequence. We have campaigns for over a year that are built out. So, we use a Keap Infusionsoft. Stephanie is my operations manager. It’s just phenomenal. You met her and she I’ll have a vision. And she’s like, great. So, this is how we’re gonna execute it. I’m like, I love you. That’s why I bring her to family. She’s awesome. But we, she’s built out an entire sequence for an entire year, where it just has these touch points of checking in, text messages, emails. We have a manual for the sellers, like, it’s a book of, it’s an e-book or whatever, and it just gives them, like, all their options, the most common questions like just as much information as possible, so that when they finally do come to terms, we’re the people that they’re gonna work with.

Justin: Okay. And so, if they owe genuinely more than the house is worth, what do you do?

Nicole: So, that’s a short sale. And so, the easiest way to identify a short sale as an investor is, let’s just give like, real numbers. So, say you’re talking to a seller and this goes for not even people that you’re targeting. Like this could be anybody that you guys are targeting.

Justin: Of course, we come across a lot of them. I mean (Yeah), regardless of whether you genuinely or specifically go after the niche, (Right), or you’re like me, I just go so freaking wide with my database that I get them no matter what, right? I just don’t focus only on them. So unfortunately, you would probably tell me, Justin, get your guys to know my script, which is why you’re going to be teaching at my mastermind. And so I can’t wait to have you kind of get involved in my community and teach my community what you know, and have them get in your community. That will be incredible. But again, we come across this all the time, where they owe $220K on a $200,000 home, and you’re just like, well, I’m don’t know what to do with that.

Nicole: Well and here’s the thing, so that’s how I got into the business. So when I got into the business, I was 21 years old, and then when I went out on my own, because I worked for an REO brokerage and was worked doing REOs foreclosures. I was broke when I when I started my business on my own, I was broke. I was 24 Yeah, 23, 24 years old, and just extremely tenacious. And I’m like, Okay, I don’t have $10K to $20,000 to spend on marketing to compete with these home busters. And, you know, at the time, they were like, (For sure), it right, yeah. And so, I’m like, Okay, well, I keep talking to these investors, and they keep telling me, I’m like, what do you do with the leads that the numbers don’t make sense? And they’re like, we move on. It doesn’t fit our buy box. And that was like this light bulb moment for me in like, 2010, 2011 where I’m like, why am I trying to compete when I can be the best thing that’s ever gonna happen to you and your business, and I’m another tool in your toolbox, because you’re already throwing away these leads. To you they’re dead leads because there’s no equity there. But now these leads, when you come across a seller that you’re like, Okay, you owe 200 but My offer is 100 (Yeah). So, so even though you’ve already done the hardest part. You’ve paid for the lead. You’ve had the conversation with the seller, and the seller wants to sell to you. You walk away because you’re like, I’m sorry, I can’t do it. So the only thing now is, instead of walking away, you’re going to say, You know what, I actually have a part. We partner up with this company. This is all they do. I’m going to send you their information and you shoot it over to us. And so if you ever refer a lead, it’s www.thessqueen.com, and you shoot it over to us, and then we pre-qualify them. And now you get the first right of refusal to purchase the house through the bank instead of the seller.

Justin: So, you go through the negotiating with the bank of what they’re worthy willing to take, (Yeah), in a true short sale scenario.

Nicole: And a true short sale. So the seller, of course, is still the seller, right? So they’re the ones signing off, but they want to work with you, because you’re the person that referred it over to us (Right). So, we get the offer signed. We don’t have to list it. There’s no other competition, and we, and the bank, of course, has the right you know, is going to make the final call, but we’re negotiating your offer the bank. So now you have the opportunity to purchase at a discount when this was a dead lead.

Justin: And that’s because your license not everyone like, I can’t go negotiate with the bank, right? Because your license need (to represent the seller). That’s right? And so, it doesn’t matter in state, because where is your license?

Nicole: So, I’m licensed in four states, but we have agents through the brokerage, (I got it), and the other states that are on our team got it, and so we’re able do it that way.

Justin: And so, you figure out whatever kind of split you do, and say, Hey, let’s negotiate the short sale and whatever.

Nicole: That’s how the short sale queen was born. And so I was cold calling and prospecting, because I always tell people when you’re building your business, the low hanging fruit, but then the long term, where people are coming to you. And you know, I’m I’m so grateful, because we in 2018 where we became 100% referral. So 2018 that’s where I stopped cold calling, and didn’t have to do that anymore. And we deal. We get, I mean literally, we have, like, 110 short sales right now, like we do over 100 a month. And so, for people to it, and I have an amazing team who love it just as much as I do, and so I’m not in production anymore. I just oversee it so, but that’s how the whole Short Sale Queen was born, where it’s like, great, and I built my whole brand on my reputation. So, and people don’t even have to, like, think about it. If Nicole says she’s gonna do it, she’s gonna do it. (Yeah), period.

Nicole: Guys, I know you’re watching this and listening to this, you have to start following her. Because even me like, Oh my God, how does my team get in her world? Because whether you’re doing PPC leads, cold calling, texting, direct mail, you’re coming across short sales. I mean, we all are, (Yeah), I am just not training my team to navigate it in the way you would. So just like you said, when they owe 220 and our offers, or the house is 200 our offer is 170 we’re like next..

Nicole: Right. And that’s the thing is, like you don’t have to target these deals. You just have to understand, like you need this tool in your toolbox, because at the end of the day, your cost per lead is going to go down. And you now have a whole other pipeline of opportunities that you don’t have to do anything. You literally just refer it over.

Justin: So I can refer all those leads over to you and your team, and I’m out of it. And we find, someday find a check, and anyone listening or watching this can do the same thing.

Nicole: Oh yeah. We have wholesalers all the time that’s like, mailbox money for them, because they actually don’t want to buy it. And then we have a whole other set of investors that are like, I’m getting the best deals. Like, these are my deals that purchase. But the way our office, the way our operations is set up, is that you get weekly updates. Because my biggest pet peeve in this industry is that everyone tries to chase referrals, but they don’t do anything to keep them right. And I knew I’m like, Okay, if, if I’m going to be on a percent referral, like, I want to make sure that people know we’re on it. And so every Monday we, like, train the sellers, and we train everybody that refers it. Monday is you’re gonna get an update. And of course, you know in between, if you have questions, (Of course), but that way we can focus on the negotiations, but you still know every step of the way what’s going on. So where do people send you referrals? So you’d go to theshortsalequeen.com (Okay), and at the top you’ll see referral lead, and then you put your information, and then you put the seller’s information, and the only thing we ask is that you give them a heads up that we’re going to be calling, because we want to be an extension of the existing rapport that you’ve already built. You already did the hard part. And so, we don’t want to get filtered out with all the other people blowing up their phone. So just make a warm introduction, so we could just take it from there. You don’t have to explain the shorts all process. You don’t have to explain anything. In fact, the less you say, the better. If you don’t know, yeah, of course, because we have to do the deliverables right for whatever you promise. When I first started out, you know, I was, like, super young and ambitious. I miss my age. But when I first started out, I was, you know, salesperson, right? I’m like, oh, we’ll do it. We’ll handle it. And so these investors, they would be like, Oh man, Nicole will get you, like, 50 grand, I’m like, All right, let’s chill because, you know, I had to be the one to do it (Right) so chill like, we’re not getting the 50 grand. They’re upside down. And so, yeah, the less, the better, if you don’t know, but we will pre qualify them, and we have a 98% close rate. And the reason why is because, one, we don’t stop until it gets done, but we make sure is this a deal we could actually close like we’re not going there’s no reason for something to pop up. And we know how to what to look for and how to be able to deal with those things, the deal killers, you know, before even wasting time or money.

Justin: Guys and girls, make sure you are following Nicole the Short Sale Queen on YouTube, theshoresalequeen.com Nicole Espinoza, it has been a pleasure. You are a godsend to our entire community. Can’t wait for you to teach my world. (I’m excited) How to do it as well. Thanks so much. All right, y’all that’s it for this episode. We’ll see you on the next one. Peace.