Mr. Greg Bilborough is here from geo flip. What’s up, dude? How you doing? My friend? Good to see you. Dude, I’m doing wonderful. As a matter of fact, as I’m recording this video, tomorrow morning, I will be in a hospital with a brand new baby girl. So Wow. Yeah, I’m very good. very blessed right now. All right, well, we’ll keep this efficient. Let’s get efficient with it. Your KPIs, guys. So let’s talk PPC for a while I get a lot of questions about what what’s the right marketing strategy for me, you know, I coach a lot of students all the way from New York to California. And I get this a lot like what’s the right marketing strategy? What should I be doing? And different people are in different places in their business, right. But PPC, I have found and again, for those who aren’t familiar, it’s pay per click advertising, typically on Google, but you also have Bing as well. And it’s the search terms that you will find at the top of the page. And so, I have found that PPC by far has the highest motivated leads. Relative to the other strategies that I use.

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Now I use direct mail, I use cold calling, I use text messaging, voicemail drops, etc. And so let’s talk about that, because a lot of intrigue is behind that about the motivation of leads. And while PPC, I believe in my experience, says it is true. The highest motivation, yes, but it all isn’t always the highest performing lead volume marketing strategy either. And so where this conversation I think is naturally going to go between you and I is diving into KPIs and really talking about dollars and cents. So let’s just kind of start there, let’s let’s talk about the motivation of pay per click advertising leads. Sure, well, that’s
a good intro and just for your listeners, or for anybody who doesn’t know, I’m Greg Bilborough, CEO of geo flip. And I’ve been doing Pay Per Click marketing full time and doing nothing else for about As for other people as a service provider for four years, but I did it for myself as a principal as a flipper or a wholesaler in Phoenix, Arizona, for the four years before that, or maybe three years before that. So I got seven, eight years of this now, I’m sitting in both chairs as the owner operator flipping houses, putting deals together doing, you know, processing leads, managing a sales team. And then the last three or four years, it’s been helping other teams grow, but with lead gen. So with that as a backdrop, I think you’re right. And I think there’s KPIs that can support this about is there greater motivation from what we will call Pay Per Click Marketing Leads, or less motivation. And I can, I think I can argue and make a case that that is true. But instead of getting to the numbers first, I’d rather just sort of describe it that everybody can relate to. So just a day or two ago, I was showing somebody I was coaching, a picture of a food liner, I should say, a food truck, and 10 or 20 people at this food truck, just buying food. There’s three people in the food truck making food 10 or 20 people outside of the truck, you know, getting food. Once I asked him who had that picture, who is a food buyer, and the person I’m training says, I don’t know, 1617 people, they’re in front of the truck. And I said sort of there’s one girl with money in her hand and her purse out at the actual cash register talking to the girl behind the cash register doing this move right here. That is the act of buying food. The 15 people behind that girl is profiling them. It’s it’s guessing that they’re food buyers, it’s it’s that there’s a likelihood that there’s a food buyer, it’s probable that if they’re standing in food in a food line and they’re in the third or fourth spot, you know, looking at the menu, okay? But that’s the difference that I see in our industry. Pay Per Click marketing is what I call proactive, meaning the person is at home sitting on a couch or at work or whatever having a problem could be real estate could be Financial just a million things could be the problem. But the sich the the differentiator is that this person on the couch, that’s having a house problem, financial problem or otherwise goes to their laptop or goes to their iPhone, or goes to their computer and makes a conscious decision to think of their question and then makes an act of opening up their laptop or going to Google or whatever. I mean, that’s an act, that’s a physical act that’s getting a body to do something of which it was a state. It was a it was a sitting body prior to, and then it asked Google whatever, that’s Google, right? The the the search, okay, that’s all proactive the person is doing that upon their own volition is their act, their thought their energy, they own their pain. Okay, that’s where Pay Per Click marketing starts. That’s what that’s what Pay Per Click marketing is it’s the person getting off the couch thinking of their question, going to Google typing it in looking at what Google tells them as, you know, some options from which to consider. And then the motivated seller clicks on one. If they click on one of those, and then decide to actually make a phone call or submit their information. All of that was their act, that was all them stepping forth. That was all them walking forward into what uncertainty, right talking to strangers is uncertain. I’m making random phone calls to the internet with you know that those are all like little pieces of points of resistance. Yet, if a motivated seller passes all those little mini tests, you know, there’s definitely an argument to suggest that that is a person that has a problem that wants to take an ownership position of their problem and search it. Everything else is reactive, where you’re buying lists, or you’re looking at something and then you’re making estimated guesses on like big lists, or whatever it might be not that that’s the only game in town, but you’re profiling something. And it’s just a different approach. I’m not gonna say one is better or worse. But the one that’s where you’re profiling and trying to guess that this is going to become a lead. That’s where you’re convincing them that they have a problem. And that hopefully, you can turn them into a closed an escrow or not right. And so that’s the distinction. One is where your reactive one is where you’re proactive and PPC lives in that proactive space. The motivated seller owns their pain first.
Yes. Funny you. You and I looked at it similar but opposite. Hmm. Okay, let’s hear this. Yeah. So I say proactive marketing is calling and text messaging. Oh, I get that. Reactive marketing is when you spend money marketing and wait for that person to come to you, you are being reactive.
I get that. And that’s from the perspective of your student, your client. You’re the flipper the Rei. And I get that that makes sense to me, too. And I speak in that language from time to time as well. Yeah,
yeah. So we’re kind of saying the same thing. You’re you’re taking the perspective of the homeowner, right? I’m being proactive, the homeowner, I have a pain, I need to go get help. I’m taking as like one of my students myself. And I’m saying, Hey, you know, be proactive, go after those people and have a conversation I get right. So but by the way, the biggest key that you said in there is you’re not saying one is better than the other. This is why I mandate my students have multiple marketing strategies. The only time I’ve ever been hurt in this space of 14 years, by the way, dude, I’ve been doing this for 14 years to kind of amazing. That’s amazing to think that. Yeah. So the only time I’ve been really her grant naturally, I mean, is when I’ve been a one trick pony with marketing meanings, right? In 2010, which is 11 years now. I was only buying homes from the auction steps. That was the only place I was buying them. I was doing no other marketing at all. Right. And then the hedge funds came in. And when the hedge funds came in, they were out bidding me 20 30% or more on these homes. I mean, I couldn’t even sniff the numbers they were getting give right, like I was nowhere near. Well, it took me three months to really catch on to I’m not going to get anywhere close. Well, that means I didn’t buy any homes for three months, which means I wasn’t renovating any home’s for another 30 days, which means I wasn’t putting it on the market. Essentially, I didn’t collect a check for 90 or I’m sorry, nine months. Yeah, because of this. I had all my eggs in one basket, all of them. Yeah. The other part was when I was only doing direct mail. This is prior to geo flip was before I was using you PPC right is I had 40 grand a month going out and direct mail only every month clipping down 40 grand right. And all of a sudden my callback rates went from 1% to point 005, half of 1%. Right. And when you’re spending that kind of money and you have a certain return and this is where I figure, we’re going to get into numbers here. Sure, like you’re spending money to hit a certain a 3x return Minimum, like that’s the baseline. And all of a sudden you have half as many leads. Yeah, well, now you’re starting to outtake your coverage, I call it right, there’s a law of diminishing return. I’m spending too much money for not getting enough leads. So then I realized, Okay, first of all, I got to figure out the direct mail. But second of all, I need a layer in other marketing strategies. So we immediately had a conversation with you, this is, you know, PPC, this is four years ago, ish. You know, we layer in PPC, we layer in we start cold calling again. And now, most recently, obviously, the buzz in the world is text messaging over the last year or so and who knows where text goes, because all the carriers and things of that nature, but you know, now I have four fundamental marketing strategies, PPC, direct mail, cold calling and text messaging, that all are running simultaneously. And that allows me to have one month or two of a marketing strategies, it’s not really performing to where I need it to be. Because there’s three other marketing strategies working, even if two aren’t performing. I have two others, right. And so this comes down to again, people understanding their numbers, and most importantly, when leads are coming in making sure you’re converting, and that’s why I love PPC, because although cold calling brings in a much great, greatly higher lead, right, and I’m doing this on purpose, I have the little bunny fingers for those of you may be listening to this. Yeah, it’s true. It has a higher lead volume, the amount of leads I need in cold calling pale in comparison to how many I need in PPC. So it becomes this. Like I say, math, right. So if I’m going to spend 10 grand a month on PPC, and I bring in 20 leads a month, but I can convert one out of every nine.
Well, as long as I’m making at minimum $10,000 per deal. I’m going to get two deals. I at least to x my money, right? I’m calling is totally different. Right? Yeah. Cold Calling right now. Because we just being this morning. We brought in 79 leads last week. Okay. 79 leads last week with cold calling in one week 79 leads the difference, to your point is this motivation from the homeowner, where they’re being proactive, because they’re saying I have a pain, I need to find this person who buys houses fast. That’s right, yeah, versus cold calling where I’m being proactive. But now to your point, I’m saying, hey, Greg, have you thought about selling Greg says, I mean, maybe, okay, well, why haven’t you maybe listed yet. And then I started to talk them into the concept of selling excetera. And then the nurture. So, you know, PPC to me is a no brainer, but let me I’m gonna let you speak in a second. But I want everyone to understand geo flip is the company that I have used is literally when Greg and I first sat down four ish five years ago. I said, Dude, I’ve used all the companies, they suck. PVC doesn’t work in Phoenix is terrible. And Greg basically just said, Let me prove it. Let me show you how we’re different here. And they did immediately. And that’s why he’s on my show today is because it actually worked in here in Phoenix. Now, the key though, is PPC isn’t for everybody. If you have, you know, $1,000 marketing budget a month, PPC is not for you. It is I don’t want to say a very serious marketing strategy. But like I in Greg, you might have a different perspective. But if you don’t have and I know you have different programs for where people are at, but like, I would not encourage a student of mine to get involved with PPC if they didn’t have a $5,000 a month budget, right? Because you have the management costs for geo flip you have to spend on Google. And if you can’t drive in 20 leads a month. And depending upon how good you are at conversion, right and sales, like you might be torching money, right. And so I just want to say it is not as much as I love you and promote geo fit and everyone needs to go to geo flip calm and use promo code TSF. Or, in fact, at this point you even gave me geo flip nerd comm forward slash
geo flip comm forward slash TSF. So if you go there, you’ll land on your beautiful mug and your page and yeah, that’s right. So let me talk a little bit about that with regard to marketing channel diversity because it’s something that I feel I feel I’m passionate about it, I feel I understand it well and I feel I have I have an understanding of marketing channel diversity on a different level such that I can add value to even expert Rei is because I see something different just because I’m in a different chair not better. So here’s how I like to describe that. Some of my guys make big money. Big Boy money. So here’s an example. Let’s say a real estate investor spends $200,000 in a year on marketing. And that marketing produces, for example, a million bucks in gross revenue in the year. And let’s just say in this example, your he’s a one marketing trick pony or one one tactic, one marketing tactic, you know, direct mail, for example, that’s the easy one. Okay, there’s nothing wrong with that. And to say that there’s anything good or bad or wrong or right, it’s just a, it’s just a myopic, short sighted understanding of what we’re talking about. When you have a one marketing channel than every anything that can take that marketing channel away is 100% risk to your income. So marketing channel diversity. So here is an approach again, not better or worse, because every decision comes with pros and cons. You could take that same $200,000 expense in marketing, and try to make a million bucks. And then I asked the following question, would you rather spend 200,000 and make a million bucks? Or would you rather spend 100,000 on a marketing channel that makes you 500,000 bucks. And then another marketing channel that you spend 100,000 on that makes you 400,000 bucks. So an example a you’re making a million spending 200,000. So you net 800? Right? An example B, you know, you’re spending 200,000, right, but you’re making 900,000. So you’re actually netting 700,000. So it’s less money. And this is where people in my opinion, are us our eyes, we get we get, we get lost in what we really do. A business owner, one of the most important things a business owner can do is risk management not make a shitload of money. And so when we get into that reptilian brain, that whole I want to buy Ferraris, and boats and stuff, I get that. But what’s way scarier is to have your million dollar income evaporate and not know what to do. What’s way scarier is to have your million dollar income vanish and you have the inability to pivot and you got nothing on batters deck or warmed up in which to pivot. In fact, step one, when your million dollar rev goes, zero panic, that’s always step one is panic, everybody, that’s what happens. Because you got you got fat and happy on you’re in a comfortable setting, let’s say, Okay, so what’s better? Do you want to spend 200 to make a million? Do you want to spend 200 to make nine, that’s up to the operator, what I say is marketing channel diversity has its place. And it’s important because I’ve been on both sides of those. That equation too, I’ve been a one trick pony. And I’ve never had four channels like you Koba, you’re a pretty, you know, you’ve you’re pretty, that’s a lot of moving parts that you do a good job coordinating. And that’s the con to what I’m saying. That’s the negative to what I’m saying. And again, it’s not a con or negative just has to be understood as an operator business owner. If you have two channels, it is not a little bit more complicated, it is significantly more complicated to correctly understand and manage when one piston is up in a month or a quarter and one piston is down in a month or quarter. And to recognize that you have two good pistons that sometimes don’t fire at the same time. And I pray I profess this to all my clients. Now those that only have a little bit of money they can’t afford or sometimes they don’t have the management skills to manage two or more marketing tactics. And I get that, but what we teach is you walk before you run. So we work our way into that and like yourself, call me you got four things running, if one or two things is sucking wind, hopefully one or two other marketing channels is doing decent to great. And I suspect that’s the case. And I know that’s the case, because a Tell me, but b i know that that’s how this works. Because all my clients that have two or more channels, that’s what happens one month, geo flub will be up the next month, you know, it might be down and the other thing will be up. But at the end of the day, my client goes to bed knowing two things work and and and they’ve got marketing channel diversity. If I get hit by a bus, the other thing can work. If the other thing get hits gets hit by a bus, we’re not going anywhere.
That’s right. I mean, that’s, that’s really you’re saying the exact same thing I’m saying, right. It’s just risk management. And that’s why I told you this two stories of where I got pounded financially is when you’re clipping off 40 grand a month to spend on direct mail. And literally the callback ratio just whether it was competition, whether it was right place, right time, whatever was happening by callback ratio got cut in half. Yeah, you can’t sustain that. Right. That means I’m gonna have to double my conversion, essentially. And you’re not able to double your conversion overnight. Can you do it? Yes, but you can’t do it overnight. And so I tell those stories for the exact point you’re bringing up right? Yeah. And I don’t even know let’s let’s give you a little plug. I know you have several programs. What are the three kind of layers I think it’s three that you have for investors that geo flip.
It’s three tiers. It’s very easy to understand. It’s it’s intuitive, I think, to everybody, the lowest tier, the beginning tiers for beginners, part timers, newbies, you know, people trying to figure the business out, getting into the business doing it on the part time or whatever. It’s Little bit, you know, we define it more than that. But the way I want people to think about it is yeah, entry level, we have a tier for that. It’s very inexpensive. It’s low headache, it’s low management, it’s very easy to just kind of get people up and running and get exposed to digital marketing, where we somewhat protect them from spending money, keeping their money out of harm’s way, but it’s very hands off. And definitely we deliver leads, definitely you flip houses, and definitely it’s for newbies, but under 5k. So if you’ve got 234 grand a month, that’s a good fit for you. The next tier is called professionals, which is me and you, it’s career guys, it’s full time people, we’re already spending 510 20k 3040 50k a month, you know, we’re a one man show who’s really got our game tight, or you know, a girl show or like, you know, a team of five or 10 people with an acquisition manager, lead manager, construction crew, what have you, that’s the professional package, that’s anybody spending five to, you know, 20 grand or 15 grand a month, something like that. And that gets most of us the guys that are you in our world. That’s that’s nine out of 10 people professionals. And then the third tier is enterprise level. So we’re going to start working on and we have started talking to some larger, regional and institutional buyers, because you’re right, lead flow can be sparse at times, we’re getting 2345 leads in a week. And that can be frustrating at times. But if you got big budgets in a big region, like you want to own the West Coast or so cow, we can we can make it rain, because our tool is bids Google Ads the largest advertising network on it on Earth, you know, so the bigger the sandbox that we can playing with bigger budgets, we can make it rain. So we have an enterprise package as well, which is 15k on up.
Yep. And so let me just, you know, what I would say to this in, kind of to summarize and wrap up is I’m a massive believer in PPC. I’m a massive believer specifically in the head honcho Greg Bilborough, who you’re talking to you right now and his company geo flip. So if you go to geo flip comm forward slash T, S, o f. That’s how you’re going to get in front of Greg and see if this is a good fit for you. geo flip comm forward slash Ts, o f. But also, I’m a believer in diversification of your leads. And lastly, or diversification of your marketing that brings change. And then lastly, what I’ll tell you is if you are thinking about talking to Gregg and team about pay per click advertising, pay per click advertising, PPC, make sure you’re clear on your expectations, because I have sent people over to Greg, that I did not clarify for them what they should be expecting, and it got egg on everyone’s face. So let me now kind of state proper expectations for you is you should not get into PPC for less than six months. If you are going into see if this works ear bunnies for those listening. bunny ears. Don’t do it stop. Now, PPC is not for you. This is not a 3060 day game, not even really a 90 day game. And I know a lot of you have heard me say like you got to test things out for 90 days and make a decision. pay per click advertising isn’t even that, like you don’t, in my opinion, if you’re going to do pay per click advertising, have the bandwidth to go for six months, because you will see the rewards start to pay off at that six month point in pay per click advertising, I don’t care the company, you’re going to have peaks and valleys to some extent. But if you’re able to go for six months and look back, you will see that there’s an even line of leads that came across your desk over the six months. And if you’re not in the strategy long enough, you will not see that you will just see peaks and valleys. And that’s not fair to Greg geo flip or any marketer ever. Because the reality is it does take time for their engine to ramp up just like it takes time for direct mail and everything else. And so I just want the proper expectation, if you’re going to go to the geo flip.com, forward slash t s o f, understand, you want to have a bandwidth that you can run for six months with this to really um, kink everything right to get a consistency to get his team to get to where they need to be. Because I know one thing, Greg, you and I just had a conversation about this, I believe I’ll let you say it. But if a investor who is your client right stays with you for a year, they’ve all made a certain amount of money, their return is all above a certain price point
minimum is 3x that’s 3x and the average is 4x by a year or more so but almost nobody has a 3x 4x in the first 90 days because it doesn’t work like that. So you make a good distinction. Let me add just one detail to that Colby if I may, you’re right don’t do this unless it’s six months or your mind is set to something along those lines. But we also a geo flip me being an Rei you know in my in my blood is I understand the desire to Have a fast start. And to build confidence early and early wins, I understand that. So we’ve made some adjustments to try to make the demonstration of the return on investment present itself earlier in the Rei journey, rather than later. So we now have a couple things that we’re doing to do that, in its simplest form, what we’re doing is setting clients expectations to six months. But now we’re basically forcing a little bit more money at Google. Because this our business is about data, and optimization. So low data can’t optimize a lot of data can optimize, that’s how it works. So for all you guys that are out there, this is like we’re like, I mean, we’re not Silicon Valley. But think of Silicon Valley. When you think of geo flip, it is a data play, we need a boatload of data. And when we have a boatload of data, my data nerds, it’s normal, they know what to do, because that’s normal for it’s easy, it’s not hard. But when we have no data, little data, sparse data, or tiny budgets, small budgets that don’t allow us to get the data takes us forever to optimize. So so so six months, is just one of those adjustments, we used to say, three, but it’s been taking us longer to get to the data because of such the market doing talk about later. But it’s just been so little distress over the last year or two, that getting distressed typed ads, and all that information on the search query side just took us a little longer. So that’s what that is. It’s not like it’s bad, or good or broken or whatever. It’s just takes us a while to optimize because of the data.
Yeah, and so just to kind of wrap it up here. Obviously, you guys have the website, I am a massive believer in PPC, it is one of the four marketing strategies. It has a highest motivated seller. If you’re serious about it, I really encourage you to get on the phone with Greg and his team. They don’t accept everybody that is for sure. So go to the geo flip.com, forward slash TSF geo flip comm forward slash gsf. And Dude, I really appreciate you spending some time with us. This is really important because I’m a firm believer, not just your company, but PPC in general. And so thank you for spending the time on your dude.
I appreciate it, man. Thank you for the opportunity. And can I close on one last point, of course. Okay, I just want to say this, and I know you got to run. But right now we’re at what in February 2021. I don’t know when the S is gonna hit the fan in residential real estate. And I’m a believer that the S is gonna hit the fan and residential real estate. I know there are others that say no, or, you know, the government’s going to change the rules. But I think the shoe is going to fall or the S is going to hit the fan, whatever you want to say. And the last thing I want my Rei to do is when they see a gigantic wave of real estate default, then called geo flip, you should be 345678 910 something mon we data set and a knowledge of your geo and a knowledge of the client and a knowledge of the data patterns. 63456 months before the s hits the fan, I think this is gonna hit the fan this year. I believe that I’ve been saying that since last year for a year on every zoom call I’ve ever done. So if that’s true, I do really encourage clients to get into whatever marketing channel they’re going to do, whether it’s geo flip, or otherwise, and get that figured out first and now and get your KPIs tight. Because when the S hits the fan, it’s gonna be like on a little tiny dinghy or canoe or somebody shaking, it’s gonna get shaky, it’s going to get crazy, we’re going to see a wave of default 10x bigger than we’ve ever seen. And it might be much bigger than that. But I think 10x is conservative. So what we’re about ready to experience is going to be unlike anything any Rei has ever seen ever. And I do believe that that’s not hyperbole. So get your numbers tight. Get your marketing tight, because it’s our Super Bowl. If you’re an Rei and you’re well prepared. Our Super Bowl is coming It’s right in front of us. So get those things established. Now get your sea legs underneath you and be prepared. You’re in the right time at the right place. If you’re an Rei it’s right here right now.
Yeah, no, I love it. Great point dude. Wait and you’re on a great point. Appreciate it. geo flip.com forward slash t s o f Thank you for coming on bro boxing